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A black man bravely speaks out.

Al Mccray is a Tampa businessman and managing editor of TampaNewsAndTalk.com.


1 posted on 04/25/2011 9:32:07 AM PDT by Iron Munro
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To: Iron Munro

Pragmatic Psychology teaches us that a good way to understand the causes of otherwise inexplicable behavior (including some behaviors for which a whole host of reasons are claimed), we must consider the results that are obtained. In many cases, professionals can help determine the root cause of behaviors by considering those results. As a result of the war of 1861-5, many things occurred, primarily: Physical slavery was ended, replaced with an economic equivalent (poverty, ghetto, dependency, continuing unemployment). Federalism became enshrined as the new mode of government. A large standing army and navy became perpetual. Habeas Corpus proved itself expendable in times of trouble. Bankers gained tremendous power, largely in part due to lending money to both sides and managing the forced implementation of the “Industrial Revolution” (on borrowed money) nationwide. Seeds were sown for a National Bank (Federal Reserve), nationalization of the militias and a formal military draft, income tax, and a whole host of things that the Founders eschewed. The south was probably suckered into playing the villain just as FDR arranged for Japan to strike the first blow in the Pacific. Imagine the landscape if the antebellum Republic still stood. No CIA, CFR, CPB, DEA, DHS, DOE (either one), DOJ, EPA, FAA, FCC, HHS, IRS, NPR, NSA, SEC, TSA etc. etc.


74 posted on 04/25/2011 10:51:27 AM PDT by cqnc (Don't Blame ME, I voted for the American!)
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To: Iron Munro

“The Civil War was about slavery, nothing more”

Well, that’s just stupid. About as stupid as “War Between the States about slavery? No way”.


75 posted on 04/25/2011 10:52:25 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Iron Munro

This is one of those cases where the truth is somewhere in the middle. Slavery wasn’t the only issue, true, but one can’t discount that it was a major issue. It was a catalyst that triggered other events. Virginia, however, had already outlawed slavery when it seceded. One only needs to read archives of the newspapers of the time to understand how volatile this issue was on how much was wrapped around it.

The article writer also should grab a copy of the articles of confederation if he believes the original colonies retained 100% rights to leave the confederation on any whim. They actually were under treaty with each other and that was specifically outlined in the Constitution (Article VI). Albeit, that only affects a couple of the seceded States.


76 posted on 04/25/2011 10:53:12 AM PDT by mnehring
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To: Iron Munro

Lincoln was not a committed abolitionist. He adopted the Emancipation Proclamation as a wartime expediency.

As for the issue of Fort Sumter and the other federal forts, I don’t think you can justify holding on to them unless you were planning a military operation against the Confederacy. Then it makes sense.


78 posted on 04/25/2011 10:57:07 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Democrats = authoritarian socialists)
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To: Iron Munro
The War Between the States was about states' rights — not about slavery.

Then why did the Confederate constitution REQUIRE every state in that union to participate in slavery? Wouldn't it have been up each state since it was their right? I wont wait for an answer because I know thar be none.

80 posted on 04/25/2011 11:00:36 AM PDT by SwankyC
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To: Iron Munro

Let’s put the outcome of the first Civil War in today’s terms. Suppose that the 11 Western States chose tomorrow to secede from the Union and it was offered to the President that the only likely solution to keep that from happening was a four year war that would end with the accumulated deaths of 10 million Americans(the equivalent number in proportion to our current population). If the President chose that option he would be brought up on war crimes and hung, but Lincoln’s decision, and his subsequent assassination no doubt, got him a permanent station on Mt. Rushmore. If he had paid attention to history he would have recognized that the South was doing exactly what the colonies had done... Four square and seven years previous.


90 posted on 04/25/2011 11:10:23 AM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can go to hell.)
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To: Iron Munro

Lincoln oversaw the deaths of a half million Americans to prevent the very thing that the colonies had been lauded for only four score and seven years previous. His prize? A permanent place among the pantheon of greats on Mt. Rushmore. Lincoln was an abysmal failure as a Pres. and as a human being. His answer should have been: I hate slavery(he didn’t) and I will allow our brothers of the South to keep their sovereignty and evil practice, and suffer their punishment from our just God alone.


94 posted on 04/25/2011 11:15:20 AM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can go to hell.)
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To: Iron Munro

If the War between the States was about slavery someone needs to tell the Tyrant Lincoln cause he said the war was about the imperial domination of forced union.


128 posted on 04/25/2011 11:59:12 AM PDT by Monorprise
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To: Iron Munro
"War Between the States about slavery? No way"

That's right! The rebels were "fightin' for their rats." ...been told that by 'em in person. It was for the rats.


167 posted on 04/25/2011 12:55:47 PM PDT by familyop ("Dry land is not just our destination, it is our destiny!" --"Deacon," "Waterworld")
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To: Iron Munro

The history of this war was written by the winner. Textbooks have been and are printed by the winner of the WoNA. Most folks seem to have been indoctrinated successfully by the winner’s lackeys. It took me many years to learn what really happened in those years, and I live in SC. Al Mccray and I agree on the facts. But how on earth did he ever find out the truth about this subject, considering his background?


174 posted on 04/25/2011 1:05:53 PM PDT by Resettozero
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To: Iron Munro

You guys always overlook that the escalation was over the passage of trade down the Mississippi. Take your lefty ideas away. BTW if Lincoln had not been assassinated he would have deported every slave to an island already set. Teachers tell you that......................


216 posted on 04/25/2011 2:52:51 PM PDT by eyedigress ((Old storm chaser from the west)?)
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To: Iron Munro

The American Revolution about taxes? No way./s


228 posted on 04/25/2011 3:28:41 PM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send the GOP to D.C. to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism.)
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To: Iron Munro

Yes way. It was about slavery and the sky is blue.


249 posted on 04/25/2011 4:05:07 PM PDT by Impy (Don't call me red.)
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To: Iron Munro
Any reasonable analysis of the conflict, by any intellectually honest American, leads to the inescapable conclusion that the Civil War did indeed have a LOT to do with slavery.

Though slavery was certainly not the only driving issue (for example, disagreement and strife over the character of the westward expansion was certainly a factor) one need only review the Confederacy's founding documents, as well as the words and records of its prominent political leaders, to realize that the Civil War had a whole hell of a lot to do with the absurd belief that Slavery was tenable under the American system.

Inasmuch as slavery was totally incompatible with the notion of human freedom and inalienable rights, and, as such, substantially violated the spirit of the Declaration of Independence as well as Rights recognized in the Constitution, the issue had to be addressed sooner or later. Given sufficient courage and conviction, the issue quite possibly could have been resolved much earlier in our history, and at a much lower cost in human life and freedom.

That is this Rebel's humble opinion, based on admittedly limited, yet sufficiently diligent research...

352 posted on 04/26/2011 12:29:04 AM PDT by sargon (I don't like the sound of these "boncentration bamps")
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To: Iron Munro

Wes Drawdy (freereb) posted much of this stuff and Jim suspended him, and said he didn’t want racist stuff on FR. Wes hasn’t posted here since that day.


503 posted on 04/26/2011 4:17:06 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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