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To: afraidfortherepublic

Sorry, but whats you posted is nonsense.

Firstly, the Scots and Irish historically were allies until the 17thC. The Scots fought for Ireland from the 12th to early 17th centuries, most famously the ‘gallowglasses’, or Western Scottish/West Highland mercenaries.

The Irish helped fight the English in 1296, and of course Celtic/Scots-Irish history stretches back to BC /early AD times. The Cruthin and Dalraidic kings of Ulster had a kingdom which stretched over sea from north Ireland to west Scotland.

There WAS only one antagonism in that period, when Edward Bruce, Robert’s brother, landed in Ireland in 1318 and raised an Irish army to a—help Scotland and b—liberate Ireland (Robert the Bruce wanted a pan-Celtic alliance of a free Scotland, Ireland and Wales). Many Irish supported it, but some Anglo-Irish fought him and the landing was unsuccessful. Ironically, the Scots at home beat the English and even successfully launched punitive raids/invasions of England in 1318, 1319 and 1322 where they won several victories on English soil.

The antagonism between scot and irish didnt start until the (protestant)former transplanted to north Ireland in 1607. And even then Catholic Scots and more liberal Protestant Scots at home had no problem with the Catholic Irish.

And even then there is evidence in Ulster itself that the ‘new’ Scottish settlers and some Catholic Irish intermarried in the 17th C, so even the undoubted antagonism (which most famously flared up in the 1641 Catholic rebellion) wasnt quite as wholesale as legend has it.

In fact even in 1641, the Catholic Irish armies attacked far more the English settlers and English troops than Scottish families.

Secondly, the Scots were NOT ‘overseers’ in Ulster. They were a buffer zone between the English and the Catholic Irish. The ‘plantation of Ulster’ in the 17th C happened under the Stuart kings who ruled Britain, and of course the Stuarts were Scottish, notably James VI of Scotland/James I of England, Wales and Ireland. And it happened because of bad famines in Scotland which left many Scots, esp in the south and west, champing at the bit to try new fertile lands.

They were not overseers, they were simply the people who unlike English settlers to Ulster, were willing to work the land in NI south and west of Belfast and by default became the ‘buffer people’.

In fact, despite their hard work, the Scots/Ulster Scots/Scots-Irish/Scotch-Irish were so arrogantly treated by the predominantly English elite in both Ulster and Britain that in the 18th C alone, 275000 at least emigrated to America alone (excluding Canada, Australia, Scotland and England) and became the backbone of the rebellious forces in 1776....

‘if i am to die, then let it be with the scotch-irish of my native virginia...’

—George Washington, 1779


48 posted on 04/13/2011 2:28:03 PM PDT by the scotsman (I)
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To: the scotsman
Note, George Washington habitually had with him a french speaking interpreter ~ and then later during the Revolution after the terrible loss of New York where the Maryland 400 saved him and his army by pretty much sacrificing themselves, he kept with him sturdy soldiers from Western and Central Maryland.

They were a sort of personal body guard and frequently accompanied him as "shock troops". These are the guys walking about Valley Forge without shoes in the snow and cold. Ignorning for a moment the fact the artist used the faces of his friends, the boat load of fellows taking Washington across the Delaware were mostly part of his closest guards.

They were entirely different than the Scots and others from warmer climes. A few thousand hours work digging through genealogical records reveal they were pretty much the descendants of the captives who arrived on the Kalmar Nyckel in 1638 (and other boats later) to serve as a population for the Swedish colony of New Sweden.

They've all subsequently been well intermixed with the Highland Scots ~ but it was the Brits who connived with the Swedish nobility to depopulate the Sapma and take people to America to work for free.

By the time the English speaking minority had finally figured out the Brits were screwing them too there was already a large army waiting for the call to rise up for freedom and independence.

A note to others looking for Scottish POWs ~ Senator Hale Boggs paid for a tremendous study of the records at the Port of Baltimore. You should be able to find the materials just about anywhere these days.

51 posted on 04/13/2011 3:29:30 PM PDT by muawiyah (Make America Safe For Americans)
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To: the scotsman

I’m sorry if you think that what I write is nonsense. I draw on the impressions that come from innumerable historic novels that I have read over the years — both about life in Ireland and life in the US, as well as examples from my own Irish/Scots/English/Swedish heritege in America, dating from 1607.

Would you prefer that I call the Scots “managers”? They managed the English estates in Ireland. They managed the slaves in the South in the US colonies. They managed slave ships on the sea. And they were prolific inventors and businessmen.


55 posted on 04/13/2011 6:49:22 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic
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