Enemies foreign and domestic.
Posted on 01/17/2011 2:03:20 PM PST by Sub-Driver
In Time Forum on Civility, Markos Moulitsas Repeats Line That Palin, Angle Will Eventually Get People Killed By Tim Graham Created 01/17/2011 - 4:24pm
By Tim Graham | January 17, 2011 | 16:24 Tim Graham's picture
Time magazine asked a panel of 16 experts to answer the question "Are We Becoming An Uncivil Society?" While Time's selected Republicans and conservatives (including Glenn Beck) stayed civil and didn't point explicit fingers at liberals for trying to smear the Tucson shooting on conservatives, leftist Daily Kos blogger Markos Moulitsas rudely predicted (again) that one side of the aisle, inspired by people like Beck, Sarah Palin, and Sharron Angle were going to get Americans killed:
We have always been an uncivil society. Just ask John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. But being harsh and passionate in one's political discourse isn't the same as walking around with guns intimidating the opposition, or using apocalyptic and Armageddon-style rhetoric to paint your opponents as terrorists and enemies of democracy and freedom. Problem is, we now have a side that is gun-obsessed, whipping people up into a frenzy with lies about Obama taking their guns away and interning conservatives in FEMA concentration camps (to name just two conspiracy theories).
When Sarah Palin tells her followers not to retreat, but to "reload," when Sharron Angle says people should resort to "Second Amendment remedies" if they don't get their way at the ballot box, and when Glenn Beck spreads the latest insane conspiracy theory, well then, it's only a matter of time before people start getting killed.
This is not an April Fools' Day joke. Time invited Markos Moulitsas to speak of civility in a civil tone. Were they shocked he just kept frantically slinging mud? Is the Kos Kommandant incapable of decorum even as his bete noire Beck accomplishes it?
It seems bizarre to many that a forum on civility truly needs someone whose ethical views include "killing a defective infant is not morally equivalent to killing a person." But Time honored Princeton bioethics professor Peter Singer anyway, and he found blood on the hands of the NRA and allegedly "crazy" people who think ObamaCare curtails American freedoms:
To me the more significant aspect is that we allow people to get guns so easily, and not just any guns but semi-automatics, which can kill a large number of people in a very short time. That seems to me to be completely insane, and the U.S. is the only developed country in the world that does it. I think the NRA has blood on its hands, clearly. If those weapons were not available, maybe one or two people would have been killed, but not six or seven, as it may turn out to be. So I think that's the issue that the U.S. really needs to look at. I think that's been obvious for a very long time but this just shows it very clearly."
If you're referring to heated political rhetoric, I think some of the rhetoric has been crazily over-the-top, and there are a lot of people in the U.S. who hold what I think are nutty views about the dangers of government providing health care, for example - once again every developed country in the world except the U.S. provides health care to all its citizens, and I think those countries are just as free as the U.S. So I think there are a lot of crazy views out there and yes, there is a problem with that.
Here's a rundown of the rest of Time's contributors:
Fox News host Glenn Beck didn't say one discouraging word about the left in his submission to Time, even as he praised the country : "The fact that a vast majority of our society is miraculously civil might not make for exciting headlines, but it's absolutely true. I think that if you asked Adams or Jefferson to compare the discourse of today to the campaign of 1800, they'd be amazed at how civil we are."
Former NBC anchor Tom Brokaw backed away from the blame game, but still obsessed over guns: "But we are still unequipped in this society to deal with a manifestation of mental illness. And he was able to walk away from the college — even though everyone recognized that this was a potentially dangerous young man — and go into a gun store in Arizona and buy a semi-automatic without any background check whatsoever and create the mayhem that he did with it. Those are the issues that I think we ought to be talking a lot more about.
David Gergen of CNN (and Harvard) perfected the act of landing exactly in the middle: "There can yet be a silver lining to the Tucson massacre if we stop trying to exploit it for political purposes and instead seize upon it as a fresh chance to change our culture of violence — too much hate, too many guns, too many killings. The bitterness in politics is part of this larger trouble. There is no evidence it prompted Loughner — and the finger pointing should stop — but we knew long before Tucson it must be cleaned up. In coming weeks, President Obama should invite GOP leaders as well as chieftains of entertainment and news, the NRA and others to see if we can reach a higher plane."
David Boies, lawyer for Al Gore's post-election legal challenge in 2000: Blamed harsh talk and the media's appetite for it, but also turned to the guns: "The third thing is the increasing glorification of gun possession and use. We've always been a society where people have liked to hunt, but people have disconnected the normal utility of firearms from the culture of firearms per se. The automatic pistol, which has got no conceivable use in terms of hunting and very little conceivable use in terms of defense, becomes something that the possession of — and easy possession of — becomes almost a matter of principle to some people. I think all three of those trends together have a significant effect in terms of making events like that in Arizona more likely."
Jeff Flake, Republican Congressman of Arizona, also angling for moderation: "Arizona is conservative but there's a strong libertarian streak that runs here. There's perhaps more skepticism about the power of government to do good in a lot of cases. I'm not trying to ascribe this act to that but that's a very powerful strain that's reflected in a lot of politicians. That's just Arizona, it's what a lot of people like about the place. Though, many of us have been uncomfortable with the extreme rhetoric of late."
Deepak Chopra offered liberal New Age goo: "Inflammatory and vitriolic words are a form of violence. In many wisdom traditions, speech that is imbued with compassion and love is used as a form of healing. It's time for us to pause and reflect. Our society today has the unmistakable symptoms of inflammatory disease with violence and hostility at home and war abroad. How long can we live with this sickness? Do we want our children to grow up in an environment that nurtures their joy and creativity or one that suffocates their soul? Can we start our healing process with civil speech while maintaining our civil liberties?"
Francis Fukuyama, professor, Johns Hopkins University: "there's been a polarization and a kind of demonization of political rhetoric in the country that is very unhealthy and has been growing for a long time, and I think has gotten worse since the financial crisis. The second observation is that I don't think Tucson has anything to do with that whatsoever."
Tim Pawlenty, outgoing Republican governor of Minnesota: "To jump from that to some sweeping judgment or conclusion, based on those facts, would be premature, incomplete and unfair, particularly if you try to assign blame to any one individual or institution or outlet or the like."
Garrison Keillor, host of NPR's A Prairie Home Companion: "I am perfectly civil. Why people behind me are honking and shaking their fists, I don't know. It's an ugly thing and I try not to think about it." (That's his entire contribution.)
Robert Pinsky, former U.S. poet laureate: Polite tut-tutting of incivility.
Ed Rendell, outgoing Democratic governor of Pennsylvania: Blames both sides for vitriol against government: the "lack of civility is tearing the fabric of our nation apart."
Ruth Simmons, president, Brown University: Polite tut-tutting of incivility.
Frances Townsend, Bush security official: Polite tut-tutting of incivility.
Victoria Toensing, former Reagan administration official: Scolds slowness to respond to Loughner's mental health clues, mild scolding of blame on rhetoric.
Time's forum was perfectly free of any conservative underlining left-wing hatred and wishes for violence -- like Michelle Malkin's compilation posted on January 10.
Waste of Time!!! Actually the left-wings lunatics think they are still in charge. They are not. They are in total denial of the political destruction they suffered on November 2, 2010. And....here’s fact, folks: POTUS Obama is not going to be re-elected and the Republicans with Tea party aid will win the POTUS slot and both houses of Congress!!! The left rants and raves means zilch!!! And....Obama poll numbers also mean zilch. He has, and is going nowhere!!! The only hope for the Democrat party is to force Obama to resign or impeach his useless butt!!!
Political Correctness is taking it’s toll. We need to have a funeral for it.
Similar to the fashion Rev. NotSoSharpton had a funeral for the *N* word.
Bunch of whiney wussies.
“In Time Forum on Civility, Markos Moulitsas Repeats Line That Palin, Angle Will Eventually Get People Killed By Tim Graham “
This Tim Graham guy needs to be STOPPED!
Why are Palin and Angle inciting Tim, anyway?
You mark my words.
The left will start attacking itself in an all out effort to get folks in line.
They have completely lost it.
They're not? Please convince me that they've been halted in their tracks, which they have NOT. Their steamroller continues everyday to destroy more of our way of life and Constitutional government WHICH WE NO LONGER HAVE.
We're just about to the tipping point, past it on my scale but of course I defer to our glorious leaders already busy selling us out, "itty-bitty 'r'" (Brown) and all.
I still see criminals in the administration flaunting their lawlessness, arrogance and untouchable power. Time and again I keep shrieking (to my reps and other pols) to investigate, indict and incarcerate and it doesn't take a super-majority to stand up for the "rule of law", should have been doing that from the get-go using several cabinet members as examples.
The lefties will demand gun control and then confiscation, and then will demand that others do the confiscating. They are abject cowards. Hey, lefties! If you want to confiscate our guns, if you want to strip us of our freedoms, then man up and do it yourself, instead of hiding behind someone else.
Yes Skippy, politics can be a rough game, especially when the hate mongers on the left feel threatened by honest people like Sarah.
I recommend reading the article at the source. Not for the usual reason that you can go to supporting slinks easier, but because the formatting of your article makes it very difficult to tell how long a quote goes on.
When THE ‘’LIBS’’ ended the institutions for the mentally challenged and turned them loose on the on the streets it was like cutting off one leg of a 3 legged stool. Society cannot effectivly function by ignoring one aspect of itself.
The Left keeps whipping up their base to a fever pitch, hoping to turn them loose on their opponents.
Then when one of their nutcases actually snaps and hurts someone, they blame the other side.
Any conservative in the public eye knows what its like to get death threats, and the Left is inciting their people like never before.
Its ironic, I suppose, that Giffords engaged in the same kind of thing, accusing the “tea party” of promoting violence, people who would never hurt her, when she was being stalked by her own nutcase.
Enemies foreign and domestic.
Moulitsas will get someone killed. Let’s just hope it’s himself.
Unless I am mistaken, violent crime rates are now back down to 1960 levels after reaching very high levels in the 1990’s. We have not been assassinating politicians like we did in the 60’s. However, progressives feel they are on the verge of dictatorial power and need to vilify all their opponents.
Well, in one way you are right, the whimps in the Republican Party and their RINO butt kissers either turned and ran or they made nice with the enemy Democrat Party. But....please, if the Pubbies have any you know what, they have the power to destroy the left-wing right now and insure Obama’s defeat. Forget the 63 seats in the house, forget the gains in the senate. Look at how many governors and legislatures are now Republican and how many gains were made in cities, towns , counties and states. Forget these Obama ranters & ravers!!! Forget the media!!! What and why do you think these leftie America haters are screaming like stuck pigs. They failed!!! Obama failed!!! Oh, you think the Obama poll numbers are going up!!! Guess again!!! That speech of his only proved to the American people he is nothing but an empty suit con man and a dumb one at that. Let time march on and....just as I predicted the outcome of the 2010 election, I am right on this one!!! Obama ain’t the man, he never was and he never will be. And...if moderates, if there are any in the Democrat Party are smart, they will broom Obama and force him to resign immediately. If not, they should impeach this incompetent phoney. Less then that and the Democrat Party will flush down the defeat toilet along with failed POTUS Barack Hussein Obama!!!
The whole tenor and tone of all this call for ‘’civility’’ reminds me a lot of growing up with my four other brothers. When I think of my poor late mother pleading with us, “Don’t hit your brother!!!. “Well geez Ma, he ain’t gonna tell me I don’t love him’’!!
Well you have some good thoughts and thanks. Yeah, the real strength (if we’re still a Constiutional Republic that is) lies in the “several states”, the 10th Amendment. And like you, I’m very glad about the fantastic infusion of (hopefully) conservative Reps and Senators across the land, but now they must perform, platitudes and schmoozy words do not take the place of ACTION.
So we’ll see and with today’s electronic media and bloggers, they won’t be able to hide as effectively, although they’ll sure try but we can “out” them more effectively than in the past.
The reason the Left wants civility is because of projection: they know they have no emotional control. They have been trained and taught their whole lives to emote rather than think, and the consequences are what we saw in Tucson.
It’s like an alcoholic deciding to enter a bar and then demanding everyone not drink in order not to tempt him, rather than dealing with the alcoholism itself.
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