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To: CynicalBear; Buggman; RJR_fan; The Theophilus; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg
These covenants established the following promises for Israel :

We’ve been through this before, and it’s all in the Bible, so I know you know all this.

Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. , He does not say "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. (Gal. 3:16)
Here you apparently think Paul is teaching exactly the opposite of what is written. Paul says that it IS NOT to seeds (plural), but to Seed (singular), that is, Jesus Christ. Why would you insist on trying to make the Bible to say the exact opposite of what is written?

And we know this is reference to the Abrahamic covenant from the context of Gal. 3:

17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

All the followers of Jesus Christ share in the promises and blessings to Abraham because we are in The Seed, Christ Himself. Christ alone is the basis for all the blessings. They are spiritual in nature and spiritually discerned.

If you deny this, then you are forced into the uncomfortable position of advocating a form of bi-covenantalism, one for Israel and one for the Church. You turn Jewish believers in Jesus Christ (like Peter and Paul) into covenantal schizophrenics. (The older dispies held the two people view -- one heavenly and one earthly -- but most recent thinking dispensationalists have been forced to abandon that notion as unworkable. Similarly, the older view of “kingdom of God” vs. “kingdom of heaven”.)

The Scriptures are clear that these covenants were given to Israel alone

If you are referring to national Israel as opposed to the remnant (cf. Rom. 9:6), there’s no such indication in any of these texts. And the gentiles share in all these blessings by virtue of their faith in the Seed of Abraham, Jesus Christ.

In any event, I’m sure you would agree with me that a gentile Christian can’t “convert” to ersatz Judaism and somehow get an extra special blessing.

92 posted on 01/05/2011 1:11:08 PM PST by topcat54 ("Dispensationalism -- like crack for the eschatologically naive.")
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To: topcat54; CynicalBear; Buggman; RJR_fan; The Theophilus; Dr. Eckleburg
The older dispies held the two people view -- one heavenly and one earthly

The old Scofield dispensationalism is alive and well. I have heard that taught, with my own ears.

In any event, I’m sure you would agree with me that a gentile Christian can’t “convert” to ersatz Judaism and somehow get an extra special blessing.

Oh, but they try. If I was at home, I'd have a dandy link handy, about to immigrants to Israel, wanting to be considered converts to Judaism but retaining their belief in Messiah Jesus. This nonsense can come from nothing but dispensational roots.

Bad Eschatology Has Consequences.

93 posted on 01/05/2011 1:30:57 PM PST by Lee N. Field ("And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise" Gal 3:29)
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To: topcat54
>> Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. , He does not say "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. (Gal. 3:16)<< Look at a previous verse to put the verse you quoted into context.

Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Look at the promise he was talking about. The promise was that all nations would be blessed. All nations were blessed through the one seed Jesus. He was not talking in this chapter about the promises of land etc.

Again, in the following verse that you quoted he is talking about those who believe in Jesus obtaining the promise (covenant) and becoming “heirs according to the promise” of many nations being blessed.

>> Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.<<

In the above verse “there is neither Jew nor Greek” is in reference to those who accept Jesus as their savior. Whether they are Jew, Greek, or whatever, makes no difference when they “are Christ’s”.

Now, on the other hand, Romans 9:7 also uses the singular but surely doesn’t mean a singular person. Specifying that the seed of Abraham is in reference to the seed of Isaac and not of Ishmael.

Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

And again using a prior verse to put it in perspective. Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Surely a different distinction and meaning for the two scriptures.

Using Gal 3:16 is rather disingenuous to the debate at hand. I truly hope it wasn’t used as a means to deceive. You may need to check your Preterist references to see if they are doing the same thing to you.

95 posted on 01/05/2011 3:19:25 PM PST by CynicalBear
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