Posted on 12/12/2010 10:47:16 AM PST by Brian Kopp DPM
California contrail: Four conflicting eyewitness reports
One month after the KCBS video purporting to show a missile contrail off the coast of California went viral, a heated debate over what exactly created the contrail persists. Experts have offered convincing analysis supporting the theory that the contrail represents an SLBM launch, while internet pundits have assembled a formidable collection of evidence that the contrail was created by UPS flight 902. The debate is seemingly at an impasse, and it might be a good time to step back from the intense data analysis and review the basic facts of November 8, 2010.There are two known eyewitnesses who captured images of the contrail. Gil Leyvas is the helicopter camera man for KCBS in Los Angeles who videotaped the contrail and Rick Warren lives on Long Beach and photographed the contrail from his tenth story balcony. A 50 minute phone interview with Leyvas was obtained for this report and discussed further via email, and Warren was also contacted by email.
According to Leyvas, his video was obtained while filming a sunset view for a KCBS weather report. As he was filming, Leyvas noticed an object on the horizon that appeared to be climbing vertically out of the ocean, and he zoomed in on the object. He videotaped the contrail for a total of ten minutes and subsequently continued to view the contrail for an additional ten minutes. Leyvas maintains that the object itself that created the contrail only remained in view for two to three minutes. For 30 to 45 seconds, the object glowed brightly and then seemed to disappear from view. His initial impression was that the object was traveling east towards the coast. On reviewing the video later, he had the impression the object may instead have been heading away from the coast, towards the northwest.
The highly unusual appearance of the sunset contrail shown on TV and posted online, combined with Leyvas perception that the object creating the contrail only remained in view for two to three minutes, constitutes the primary basis upon which many observers believe the object was a Sub Launched Ballistic Missile.
Rick Warren wasnt sure what the object was that he was photographing on November 8th. I was shooting with a telephoto lens and looking through a viewfinder so I never really saw the separation of the object and the contrail until I looked at the photos, but Im sure that this whole thing lasted way too long to be a missile. I see lots of contrails from my 10th floor balcony but the difference in this one was that it seemed to be going up.
Having seen many contrails, what stood out for Warren was the vertical nature of the contrail, not that it looked like a missile exhaust plume. Some of his photos of the contrail were posted on the local ABC7 website, and were utilized by Mick West of Contrailscience.com to create a composite image of the flight progression of the object. The time stamps on Warrens photos were used to establish that the object creating the contrail remained in view for 4 minutes 43 seconds in Warrens photos. Based on altitude and position, the object first appeared in Leyvas video at least five minutes prior to Warrens photos. After seeing Wests analysis of the images, Warren says, Im now of the opinion that it was indeed a plane."
At this point, one of the most glaring discrepancies between these eyewitness accounts must be addressed. Most observers looking at Warrens images agree that the small dark object which appears at the top of each of his later photos is the same craft creating the plume that was seen in his earlier photos as well as that which was seen in Leyvas video.
If the object that created the contrail was still visible in Warrens photos, then the object itself is not likely to have been a missile. Solid fuel engines such as those used in an SLBM create an uninterrupted exhaust plume for two to three minutes, after which time the solid fuel is spent, and the missile is usually out of view.
On the other hand, when an airliner transitions from cold moist air to warmer drier air, the dew point changes and contrail formation decreases. In the case of USP902, the airliner would have been transitioning from moist cool air at altitude over the ocean to warmer, drier air over land. This could explain the contrail disappearing as the object moved farther east.
Mick West created a "chronological cut" of Leyvas video and posted it to YouTube. The transition from moist cool air over the ocean to warmer, drier air over land may have occurred at 1:17 to 1:20 of the chronological cut, which Warren referred to as the separation of the object and the contrail. When still images from Leyvas video are compared to the overlay of Warrens photos, there is a remarkable similarity and continuity between the two sets of images, providing a better time frame for Leyvas video within the context of Warrens time stamps:
When Leyvas was initially queried regarding these later photos, he replied,
the [Contrailscience composite] animation only shows the path the plume drifted and not anything in flight. The 30-45 seconds of video I captured in which I could see the object (the portion of the video showing the glow/flame of the object at its pinnacle) occurred 8-10 minutes prior to the animated images of the animation (if the time stamps are accurate). I have no way of telling if those time stamps are accurate since the raw video has no real-time time stamp associated with it. I can only go by an estimated time based on the time we launched out of John Wayne airport and the approximate time of our weather shot. My guess is that the time stamps are relatively close to the accurate time. However, what you are seeing in those images is the plume drifting and not anything in flight.
Leyvas still maintains the object creating the contrail is not visible in Warrens photos 8 to 10 minutes later:
The separate smaller trail that is separate from the main body of the plume and that was captured by Warren in his photos, which makes it seem as if the object continued in flight, appears in my video to possibly be the top portion of the plume that partly dissipates leaving a segment of the tip adrift - detached from the main body of the plume. (I highlight "possibly be" because during that portion of the video, I zoom in and out and pan off and back onto the plume, so I'm not sure if what we are seeing is a stage of separation like that of a missile or if it's the tip of the plume separating from the main portion). I did zoom into that portion to see if I could see a craft of some kind (at the time I thought that there was a chance the object was still making condensation/exhaust) but there was nothing there creating that segment. Had there been, I know I would have been able to see it with the high-powered lens I was using. Add to that - if it was traveling toward us, the closer it would come the easier it would be to see it, but there was nothing there. That's why I said it was merely the plume adrift and not anything continuously flying.
Though there was no time code associated with the raw footage I shot, you are still able to accurately time the footage from the moment I started the recording (as we departed John Wayne airport) to the final moments of the mystery missile story. When I play the video I can time the duration of the object in flight which was between 30-45 seconds of "Glow Time" - which is inclusive within, and at the end of the 2-3 minute estimated flight time from which the plume was visible at the horizon ... I can rely on the raw footage as it plays to gauge my estimated times since it plays back in real time on the player deck's control track timer.
There were also two unknown witnesses who captured images of the contrail, both anonymous posters on the image hosting website Flickr. A photographer on Hermosa Beach, north of Leyvas and Warren, uploaded a photo of the November 8 sunset and only subsequently realized he had captured the same contrail due to media reports. From his vantage point, without the setting sun directly back-lighting the contrail, it apparently appeared similar to the other contrails in his sunset photo.
Another anonymous photographer uploaded photos of clouds at sunset on November 8, and noticed a bright horizontal contrail that he subsequently associated with the media reports regarding the contrail. Notice that in the case of these latter two eyewitnesses, the first noted nothing unusual about the contrail until he read media reports about it, and the second viewed a horizontal, not vertical contrail.
Finally, the opinions of the known military experts must be taken into consideration. Several highly credible experts have stated their opinion that the contrail in question represented the launching of an SLBM.
A little further background from Leyvas might shed more light on the way the video was edited and presented to the public. Leyvas related that the video was taken during sweeps week in his TV market, and part of his job during sweeps week is to go out and look for and capture video of interest for sweeps week ratings. The video he captured of the contrail was subsequently heavily edited before being aired, and less than two minutes of the ten minutes of video has been seen by these experts. From the perspective of garnering sweeps week ratings, the footage was certainly successful.
It may be that the experts would modify their opinion based on viewing the entire footage. The footage is owned by the local CBS affiliate and nothing was found by the Department of Defense in reviewing the footage that would prevent its release to the public. According to Leyvas, it might still be available on their server. If that is the case, it should just be a matter of uploading the unedited ten minutes of video to YouTube to put an end to the debate.
MATTERS OF NATIONAL SECURITY
Mysterious missile launch baffles even eyewitnesses
Video, still photographers watched contrail soaring over Pacific Coast
That’s enough for me too. I don’t think I’ll be pinging you any time soon with that update so perhaps we’ll see each other on another topic. heh
Got me there...my heaviest PIC is in a Beech 18...;o)
Oh, that’s right...foreshortening. Which you believe makes it impossible to plot a straight line across known geographic points on a map. Again...keep bringing this stuff up. It’s like Finny and her post counting. It makes you your own worst advocate.
Your head is emptier than 0bama’s suit. :-)
Again, I'm a wannabe. That is still one of the most beautiful airplanes out there.
Ok. You made me laugh there.
My 350 HP R755 Turbo Jake burns 17 GPH in cruise and even that is more than I can really afford...and a Beech 18 sports two 450 HP Wasp Jr's....Lordy!!...Ka Ching Ka Ching Ka Ching!....:o)
Alright, buddy. Glad you found the humor in it. I really have to take my eyes off of this monitor now before the glaze on them dries permanently. See ya next round.
Yeah, but you look good even sitting on the ramp. I've never flown a taildragger. Someday. But it's going to be a while before I can afford anything beyond LSA. A buddy just retired and bought a 210. It's burning 20GPH. I cringe at filling up my jeep.
Well, obviously, based on all the data available, there must have been some change in atmospheric condition that caused it to stop leaving a contrail since it appears that an altitude change didn't cause it. That can happen, you know.
There was an actual missile launch from VAFB yesterday, someone should see if they can find photos of that to compare and contrast.
“you go ahead and apply your government lies about every possible thing.”
Like unemployment records for example? All these ‘modifications’? Fabrication of inflation stats.
You go ahead and keep trusting the government.
[crickets]
Contrails on commercial jets just aren’t that large compared to the size of the jet. There might be a few exeptions [I guess], but it looks funny. Maybe that sounds simplistic, but combine that with the corkscrew pattern, I just don’t buy it.
WND quoted both leading sources [Warren & Leyvas] as either convinced it’s not a missile or might not be a missile. Therefore, the claim of a ‘fabrication’ and ‘tale’ seems impossible to me. Fabricating doubt is absolute rubbish.
And why were people so eager to back up this slander?
~~
View the google-earth-based video at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJwQNdadIv4
Toward the end, it addresses the SeeBS graphic you are discussing.
Keep in mind that it was "Sweeps Week" and SeeBS was floundering for anything that would attract viewers -- even if they had to fabricate "news" and graphics from a routine event.
That SeeBS map has as much factual basis as their anchors' hype line that "It Lit Up The Sky!!"
-- and as much credibility as SeeBS's claim that they had shown "RAW VIDEO".
Watch the Google Earth video; several of us have used it as a tutorial on using Google Earth to examine the data for ourselves. And I, who have used Google Earth to view the files used to create the video -- and to replicate what is discussed in the video -- find it to be 100% accurate.
Watch the Google Earth video -- and judge for yourself...
~~~~~~~~~
The "plume" was never reported over Catalina Island -- nor has anyone claimed that it was. The "plume" ended before the object passed over Catalina -- because UPS 902 passed from a region where persistent ice crystals were formed into a region where only volatile water droplets were formed. (Or, as Levyas said, it "detached from the plume".)
It appears that you have a lot of catching up to do... :-)
You "misunderestimate" his density... '-)...
Yes, I see the swirls. But the contrail doesn’t reveal the sharp corkscrew.
As for missiles and early corkscrews, for all we know, it could have been a defective launch, right? While I don’t claim to have any knowledge about this, here’s a fellow freeper who impressed me as someone who does have knowledge:
OldMissileer: “That is a sub launched ballistic missile and it looks as if its’ trajectory was taking it toward Kwajalein Atoll where we target our western test launches.”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2624382/posts?page=47#47
[quote]
As I watched the video from the original news program the plume is at the horizon but the telltale is the plume itself.
A SLBM breaches the surface and the engines fire. The missile rises vertical as it stabilizes itself and then orients itself. Once it has settled down it starts the pitch program to send it toward its intended target.
The vertical flight is only several hundred feet and you can see the vertical portion of the plume in the original video from the news station. You can also see the wider smoke base on the video where the engine start sequence initiated.
[unquote] — OldMissileer
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2624382/posts?page=134#134
Your response failed to answer the most basic question:
how did WND fabricate a ‘tale’? Did you slander WND or not?
God bless you, Finny. Thank you for sharing your information/take/ and a little bit about you. Glad to have a chance to swap posts with you!
So, since the missile was 35 miles away [curved horizon chopping off the view of the actual launch], seeing the corkscrew at the bottom is not inconsistent with a missile? If the actual launch was in line of sight, there might not have been a corkscrew visible at the very bottom of a distant camera shot?
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