Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Gulf ruler agreed France's Rafale old technology
Reuters ^ | Nov 30, 2010 | Tim Hepher

Posted on 11/30/2010 7:31:44 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Gulf ruler agreed France's Rafale old technology

By Tim Hepher

PARIS | Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:53am EST

PARIS (Reuters) - France faces potential embarrassment over its Rafale warplane after a U.S. classified document published by the WikiLeaks website said a Gulf Arab leader agreed that it was "yesterday's technology."

The remark reportedly came in a November 1, 2009, conversation between Bahrain's King Hamad bin Isa al-Khalifa and General David Petraeus, who was then in charge of U.S. Central Command, according to a U.S. embassy cable published on the website.

Dassault Aviation, which manufactures the plane, said it had no immediate comment.

According to the document, King Hamad asked Petraeus for his help in encouraging U.S. aircraft manufacturers to participate in Bahrain's first air show scheduled for January 2010.

"He said that France was pushing the Rafale and would be there in force, although he agreed with Petraeus that the French fighter was yesterday's technology," according to an account filed by the U.S. ambassador in Bahrain's capital Manama.

The tiny island kingdom is one of several Gulf countries seeking to renew their fleets in a regional arms race prompted in part by tensions with Iran, according to military analysts.

Bahrain mainly buys weapons from the United States and is not considered to be the most promising market for the Rafale. But the comments are the latest in a series of setbacks for manufacturer Dassault Aviation as it tries to export the plane.

In 2007, France's then defense minister caused a domestic row for quite different reasons when he criticized the plane as "too sophisticated" for export.

The United Arab Emirates has pressed for the aircraft's engines to be upgraded with extra thrust, but industry sources say negotiations with France

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aerospace; bahrain; france; rafale; wikileaks

1 posted on 11/30/2010 7:31:47 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

A quick question:

What popular foreign fighter currently being used might be considered “second best” to ours?

I accede to your expertise.


2 posted on 11/30/2010 7:46:29 AM PST by warchild9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

Assange is now messing with France’s arms sales.


3 posted on 11/30/2010 7:59:00 AM PST by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
Why is it "embarassing" when someone states the obvious.

The Rafale was designed before the world knew what a F-117 was.

The Rafale was cutting edge for the 1980's....

4 posted on 11/30/2010 8:01:29 AM PST by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: warchild9

Too hard to call!! The Eurofighter and Rafale are equally good with respect to electronics and air to air capability but rather expensive. The Russian SU-30 series is older but has good range and payload. If you want economy as well good performance, the Swedish Gripen is the way to go.


5 posted on 11/30/2010 8:06:43 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

Another question: who has the next “big thing” coming up? and can any of our current projects leapfrog it in terms of generational capabilities?


6 posted on 11/30/2010 8:09:32 AM PST by warchild9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: UNGN

It’s embarassing when the person making the statement is unlikely to ever get to buy an F-22. The only realistic options he has are older than the Rafale.


7 posted on 11/30/2010 8:10:06 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: warchild9

The Russians are working on a stealth fighter called the PAK FA which won’t be inducted at least until after 2015 or so.

US companies are already working on concepts for a ‘6th’ generation fighter to follow the F-22 by 2030.


8 posted on 11/30/2010 8:11:42 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

Thanks for you answers. My academic training in aerial warfare is a little behind the times...

I still think Milch should have shelved the Me109 for full production of the Fw190!

/or not, considering whose side was his. Ha.


9 posted on 11/30/2010 8:16:23 AM PST by warchild9
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
It’s embarassing when the person making the statement is unlikely to ever get to buy an F-22. The only realistic options he has are older than the Rafale.

Nobody get's to buy F-22's any more. Of course he can't buy them. We can't even buy them.

The Rafele is a Super Hornet competitor, not anywhere near an F-22 in capability, anyway.

I bet we will sell him F-35's, however. That's a generation newer than the Rafale. It only takes money.

10 posted on 11/30/2010 9:07:49 AM PST by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: warchild9

I’d go with the Eurofighter, but I suppose that’s up for debate.


11 posted on 11/30/2010 9:17:50 AM PST by Citizen of the Savage Nation
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki

Sure, it depends on what you want. I answered above in a vacuum, but for air superiority, I’d pick the Eurofighter as best behind the -22. The Gripen is also good. The Typhoon and Gripen are getting export sales whilemthe Rafale isn’t. That’s certainly telling.


12 posted on 11/30/2010 9:22:13 AM PST by Citizen of the Savage Nation
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: UNGN

Even if they cough up the money, they will need to wait close to decade to get an F-35 given the backlog for the US and partners. They can get an Rafale or Super Hornet within 2-3 years if they sign a contract today.

About the F-35 being a ‘generation ahead’ of the Rafale, well lots of people will argue with that. The Eurofighter and Rafale are arguably better in aerodynamics. These aircraft are not stealthy in the conventional sense but they have a lower RCS than most competitors and sensors to boot.


13 posted on 11/30/2010 9:31:30 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: sukhoi-30mki
Well, I guess the Rafale, is designed for multi operational use, witch includes high speed low level penetration, and I would not refuse to fly one.

But since the financial crises, forcing some nations governments down on their knees, (just check the lates RAF budget!) future technical developments will properly not be done by the occidental countries.

In this case, the latest SU-50 looks quite interesting, though having a bit of YAK 50 about it.

Looking forward to the presentation in Paris.

14 posted on 12/09/2010 6:45:54 AM PST by CharlieEcco
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson