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What we really need to do is eliminate all subsidies, fossil fuel and biotech so that they all reflect market realities. Yes, gasoline would go up in price, and ethanol would be much cheaper in comparison. Then neither one would need a subsidy.
1 posted on 11/09/2010 3:07:09 PM PST by larry hagedon
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To: larry hagedon

‘What we really need to do is eliminate all subsidies, fossil fuel’

Ie, the military protection for the Middle East that allows the flow of oil?

We subsidize for stability.


2 posted on 11/09/2010 3:15:37 PM PST by Palter (If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it. ~ Mark Twain)
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To: larry hagedon
Here is a PDF, published this year, that tells it like it is.

Here is a PDF that tells how to increase energy prices and reward the poor with cash from the government while also reducing global warming.

3 posted on 11/09/2010 3:15:55 PM PST by SeeSac
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To: larry hagedon
Strong dislike for Adobe, was using Nitropdf but recently uninstalled to clean the drive. A summarization would be nice in other words.
4 posted on 11/09/2010 3:22:41 PM PST by allmost
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To: larry hagedon

Just who be the International Energy Association ?


6 posted on 11/09/2010 3:41:46 PM PST by mosesdapoet ("To punish a province Let it be ruled by a professor " Frederick The Great paraphrased)
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To: larry hagedon

I ax you .Just who be the International Energy Association ? And do dey have any axes to grind ?


7 posted on 11/09/2010 3:44:08 PM PST by mosesdapoet ("To punish a province Let it be ruled by a professor " Frederick The Great paraphrased)
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To: larry hagedon

If you were looking for comments, I don’t think
very many people are going to read an 81 page pdf file...


10 posted on 11/09/2010 4:10:28 PM PST by Repeal The 17th
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To: larry hagedon

Hey, i’ll meet ‘em halfway. I’ll be willing to drop a good thing (for us oilpatch types, anyway) if everyone else will play by some of the rules that we have to contend with.

Drop the 15% Depletion Allowance on ALL mining (good), but then have EVERYBODY pay a flat 7% off-the-top Gross Production tax on EVERYTHING that is “productioned” everywhere by anybody in this country(bad).

Make it Law and run it ..oh, ... about a year aughta do it.

Then, everyone will be on the same page and THEN we can have a discussion of who is subsidizing what. :)


11 posted on 11/09/2010 4:18:52 PM PST by OkiMusashi (Beware the fury of a patient man. --- John Dryden)
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To: larry hagedon
In this they define "subsidize" as to provide a benefit, then they use the example of a tax abatement; forgiving a tax that is otherwise due.

By this definition, the government can create a tax on fuel just to be mean, then forgive it and say they have benefited fuel companies, when in fact it is not a "benefit" (subsidy if you will). The money belongs to the fuel company to begin with and taxation is confiscation.

Besides, fossil fuels are superior in every way. They are vital to our economy.

An energy policy that relies on biofuels is like trying to climb a ladder setting in quick sand. It sinks as fast or faster than you can climb. In the end, you get nowhere but you did burn a lot of calories in the attempt.

13 posted on 11/09/2010 4:34:26 PM PST by SteamShovel (UTOPIA...Isn't)
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To: larry hagedon
Folks, there has been much misinformation published about energy subsidies. In fact gasoline is subsidized at around 3 times the rate of ethanol, but accurate information is hard to find."

Most gasoline subsidies are permanent while ethanol subsidies have to be renewed annually. This is why ethanol subsidies gets all the ink while much larger gasoline subsidies are ignored.

Folks, what we have here is a lesson in how facts are used to tell lies.

Our FreePer, Larry Hagedon, says "In fact gasoline is subsidized at around 3 times the rate of ethanol, but accurate information is hard to find."

Apparently Larry never took a course in basic economics.

What is the real value of a dollar amount that expresses a sum of certain subsidies? Is it simply the sum total of the "subsidy" that something gets? Or does it not include what is the level of production of that something that is subsidized? It does.

By ignoring what we produce, or do not produce, Hagedon simply takes a larger dollar amount and claims it expresses a larger rate of subsidy. It doesn't.

The report itself does not do that, and the report itself provides data that refutes Hagedon's claim.

Table 2.4 in the report reflects global subsidies of about $45 billion for nuclear energy, and also shows a production of about 2,719Twh (terrawatts/hour). That subsidy for that level of production provides a subsidy rate of 1.7 cents per kilowatt-hour.

The same table shows a renewable energy subsidy total (minus hydroelectric power) of about $27 billion, with a production of 534Twh, for a subsidy rate of 5 cents per kilowatt hour. Or, almost three times the rate of subsidies for nuclear power. That's not surprising when it gets nearly half as much in dollars and produces no more than 1/5th as much power.

That table shows biofuels (which includes ethanol) getting about $20 billion in subsidies, with production of 34Mtoe (million tons of oil equivalent). They've translated that to an equivalent for electrical production and show it amounts to 5.1 cents per kilowatt-hour; or slightly more subsidized than renewable electric power.

Then the table shows subsidies for fossil fuels at about $400 billion, with production at about 4,172Mtoe. They've also translated that to its electric production equivalent and show the subsidy rate to be 0.8 cents per kilowatt-hour. That's 1/2 the subsidy rate for nuclear power and more than 500% less than the subsidy rates for renewables and biofuels.

Keep in mind that in the hands of those who write these reports - all so-called subsidies are equal, and in that respect money not confiscated by the government, and left in the private markets - via "tax credits" - has equal weight - as a "subsidy" - with money sucked out of the private markets by government and redirected with direct taxpayer subsidized revenue given over to selected enterprises in the economy. Also keep in mind that most "subsidies" with fossil fuels are of the "tax credit" kind, and generous amounts of the subsidies for other sources of energy are of the redistribution kind.

Actually, in terms of "bang for the buck", "subsidies" for fossil fuels have the lowest rate of energy subsidy.

15 posted on 11/09/2010 5:26:45 PM PST by Wuli
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To: larry hagedon

Well you can sure believe the leftists on this.


27 posted on 11/11/2010 10:26:34 AM PST by <1/1,000,000th%
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