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To: markomalley; rockrr; Non-Sequitur
Williams' argument that some (few) free blacks fought for the Confederacy is all well and good -- if the evidence shows it happened, then so be it. Facts are facts.

But his further argument, at the end, about a supposed "states' right to secede," is bogus to the max.

Sure, anyone can carefully select a quote from Madison or another founder, but there are as many or more other quotes saying legitimate secession can only be by mutual consent, or in the event of "usurpations" and "abuses" of Federal power.
Secession was not legitimate "at pleasure."

And yet in 1860 there had been no "usurpations" or "abuses," and the Deep South did secede "at pleasure."
This made their secession unconstitutional.

Then seizing Federal properties and shooting at Federal forces made it "insurrection" and "rebellion."

The rest is history...

16 posted on 11/04/2010 4:31:55 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
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To: BroJoeK
The rest is history...

It's that history that Lost Causers insist on ignoring.

17 posted on 11/04/2010 4:33:48 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: BroJoeK

>>>And yet in 1860 there had been no “usurpations” or “abuses,” and the Deep South did secede “at pleasure.”
This made their secession unconstitutional.<<<

Your ignorance of history is remarkable. Check out the tariff immbalances between the North and South, that got so out of hand that Yankees could purchase some goods from England and sell them to the South cheaper than the South could purchase them directly from England.


26 posted on 11/04/2010 5:05:05 AM PDT by PhilipFreneau
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To: BroJoeK
Sure, anyone can carefully select a quote from Madison or another founder, but there are as many or more other quotes saying legitimate secession can only be by mutual consent, or in the event of "usurpations" and "abuses" of Federal power. Secession was not legitimate "at pleasure."

I'd appreciate any quotes you might have of his (with attribution) that says seccession would have to be mutually agreed.  From my readings, that's not what be or almost any other founder would have agreed to. From my readings, had that been the expectation, there would never have been a "united States".

81 posted on 11/04/2010 8:13:05 AM PDT by zeugma (Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam)
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