Obot jamese..you stated to your comrades on Dr. Conspire site.. “Vattel is an obscure writer..” Jefferson disagrees.. “we have produced proofs from the most enlightened and approved writers on the subject...”
What’s the matter, Bushie? The actual writings on the Constitution of natural born Americans aren’t good enough for you? You need to depend on an eighteenth century Swiss legal theorist on international law for your views?
If any AMERICAN Court of Law should ever agree with you that Vattel has any constitutional relevance, then perhaps I’ll pay a bit of attention. Until then...I prefer to continue living in the 21st Century.
CURRENT United States Federal Law: “Nationals and Citizens of the United States At Birth:
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
—US Code: Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401——000-.html
And your astounding and wacky refusal to accept the reality that the Founders' knew well and respected de Vattel's work is laughable.
Wow .. denying actual American history.
Tick .. tick ... tick ...
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"This 1758 work by Swiss legal philosopher Emmerich de Vattel is of special importance to scholars of constitutional history and law, for it was read by many of the Founders of the United States of America, and informed their understanding of the principles of law which became established in the Constitution of 1787.
Chitty's notes and the appended commentaries by Edward D. Ingraham, used in lectures at William and Mary College, provide a valuable perspective on Vattel's exposition from the viewpoint of American jurists who had adapted those principles to the American legal experience."
____________
'Samuel Adams in 1772 wrote, “Vattel tells us plainly and without hesitation, that `the supreme legislative cannot change the constitution.” Then in 1773 during a debate with the Colonial Governor of Massachusetts, John Adams quoted Vattel that the parliament does not have the power to change the constitution.
John Adams as so taken by the clear logic of Vattel that he wrote in his diary, "The Idea of M. de Vattel indeed, scowling and frowning, haunted me.” These arguments were what inspired the clause that dictates how the Constitution is amended. The Framers left no doubt as to who had the right to amend the constitution, the Nation, (that is the individual States and the people) or Legislature (which is the federal government.)"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Character for life: an American heritage : profiles of great men and women ... By Don Hawkinson
To: bushpilot1
Obot jamese..you stated to your comrades on Dr. Conspire site.. “Vattel is an obscure writer..” Jefferson disagrees.. “we have produced proofs from the most enlightened and approved writers on the subject...”
What’s the matter, Bushie? The actual writings on the Constitution of natural born Americans aren’t good enough for you? You need to depend on an eighteenth century Swiss legal theorist on international law for your views?
If any AMERICAN Court of Law should ever agree with you that Vattel has any constitutional relevance, then perhaps I’ll pay a bit of attention. Until then...I prefer to continue living in the 21st Century.
CURRENT United States Federal Law: “Nationals and Citizens of the United States At Birth:
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
—US Code: Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter III, Part I, Section 1401
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sec_08_00001401——000-.html
First, “Natural Born Americans” (the constitution calls them “Natural Born Citizens”) are not mentioned in the above link.
What these laws refer to are Citizens at birth... meaning they are Born Citizens.
The word “Natural” is not used.
As you well know, Vattel based his’ theories on natural Law as did the Framers of the Declaration of Independence, as follows:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
The above speaks to Natural Law flowing from a “creator.”
The “unalienable” Rights are NOT granted by Government but are a NATURAL — unalienable — portion of ALL MEN at birth!
ALL MEN!
These are — in the words of the Framers — UNIVERSAL LAWS!
Vattel — logically — applied the principle of Natural Law to international law.
The Founding Fathers were well grounded in the concept of Natural Law.
Many, including myself, consider The Declaration of Independence (based on Natural law)as foundational to a proper understanding of our Constitution.
Our Natural rights my be “secured” though law tomes and constitutions (see preamble to same)but they are, ultimately — indelibly — the birth right of ALL MEN.
This is the lofty Ideal that America was founded on.
Vattel applied “Natural law” to his Law of Nations.
Vattel did not “invent” the idea of Natural Law... but that he was held in “high and just esteem” among many of the framers of the constitution, is incontrovertible:
Benjamin Franklin to To: Charles William Frederic Dumas
Philadelphia, 9 December, 1775.
I am much obliged by the kind present you have made us of your edition of Vattel. It came to us in good season, when the circumstances of a rising state make it necessary frequently to consult the law of nations. Accordingly that copy, which I kept, (after depositing one in our own public library here, and sending the other to the College of Massachusetts Bay, as you directed,) has been continually in the hands of the members of our Congress, now sitting, who are much pleased with your notes and preface, and have entertained a HIGH and JUST ESTEEM for their author.
(Emphases mine)
STE=Q