Posted on 10/13/2010 3:04:13 PM PDT by BuckeyeTexan
IANAL means “I am not a lawyer.”
So, let’s ask three lawyers for their opinions. They’re on the squad, so feel free to consult any lawyer of the birther persuasion for an opinion.
ODH, LL, TOC - Please review #1474. I was asked for evidence that would be accepted in a judicial proceeding as proof of a list of things I submitted to STARWISE. I made some guesses.
IANAL means “I am not a lawyer.”
So, let’s ask three lawyers for their opinions. They’re on the squad, so feel free to consult any lawyer of the birther persuasion for an opinion.
ODH, LL, TOC - Please review #1474. I was asked for evidence that would be accepted in a judicial proceeding as proof of a list of things I submitted to STARWISE. I made some guesses.
I get paid more than you do because I have my own keyword.
I get paid more than you do because I have my own keyword.
And you post twice as much!
Pinging David
Yeah. That too!
Well, in that case it's worthless. No court or Federal agency is going to accept anything that isn't certified.
I was asked by ONAKA himself, if I needed an certified copy or not on Monday Sept 27th. I answered honestly that I did not know.
I don't believe you. The whole point of getting a document from the state is that it's certified. Otherwise, there is no way to tell whether it is authentic.
What has been posted is a copy made for me by the Hawaii Department of Health. The receipt which shows I paid 10$ for it is ALSO pictured. If you LOOK at the thing notice something different??? Come on pay attention!
Here's what I suspect. They sent you a short-form COLB, just like the one Obama posted, and that's what the receipt is for. You then scanned your old long-form that they gave to your mother, and you photoshopped a couple things to make it look different. Now you are lying and saying that the long-form you posted is what you received from the State of Hawaii, when in fact all you received is the short form.
I predict Jamese777 will be able to prove this once he finishes his inquiry.
You asked for “some conclusively and officially confirming validation of SOMETHING of his actual origins.”
I asked, “Do you mean other than that?” referring to my list at #1415.
You asked what would be “accepted official proof and evidence of that in any judicial proceeding?” referring to that same list.
So when you say “heresay [sic] and circumstantial,” do you mean the suggested evidence itself is hearsay or that it is merely circumstantial proof of his origins?
I believe Obama is not a natural born citizen because his father was not an American citizen at the time of Obama’s birth. That makes “where he was born” (and thus the BC) irrelevant to me.
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I believe that too. However, I also believe, that he may not have been born here. I am 99% sure that he is hiding his BC because there is something on it that will be VERY harmful to him. I also believe the State of Hawaii has engaged in a cover up of.... something? What? I don’t know and I don’t care. If he wants to be President WE the PEOPLE have the right to know. He works for US!!!
I also believe there is strong possibility that he attended college as a foreign student. One person that is the leader of 300+ million. HE WORKS FOR US. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT HIM AND HIS PAST AND I MEAN EVERYTHING. Screw that he doesn’t want to show it crap.
If I decide to give all of my employees a drug test tomorrow, they might not like to do that and don’t want me to see the results. TOUGH! They work for me.
“The WKA decision mentions it again at the end of the decision, “Upon the facts agreed in this case, the American citizenship which Wong Kim Ark acquired by birth within the United States has not been lost or taken away by anything happening since his birth.”
Toward the bottom of the following document mention is made of the “Natural Right” of expatriation, as follows:
... “or do any act whereby he shall become a subject or citizen of such state, such person shall be considered as having exercised his NATURAL RIGHT of expatriating himself, and shall be deemed no citizen of this commonwealth from the time of his departure”
It is my understanding that British Born Subjects had no “natural Right” to expatriate themselves.
However, this document only mentions expatriation as taking place — by a citizen — voluntarily:
“... all INFANTS wheresoever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was, a citizen at the time of their birth, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this commonwealth, until they relinquish that character in manner as herein after expressed”
I’m not sure who first posted the following document(maybe BP2 or even you) so I don’t know who to attribute it to.
Thomas Jefferson, A Bill Declaring Who Shall Be Deemed Citizens of This Commonwealth
May 1779 Papers 2:476—78
“Be it enacted by the General Assembly, that all white persons born within the territory of this commonwealth and all who have resided therein two years next before the passing of this act, and all who shall hereafter migrate into the same; and shall before any court of record give satisfactory proof by their own oath or affirmation, that they intend to reside therein, and moreover shall give assurance of fidelity to the commonwealth;and all infants wheresoever born, whose father, if living, or otherwise, whose mother was, a citizen at the time of their birth, or who migrate hither, their father, if living, or otherwise their mother becoming a citizen, or who migrate hither without father or mother, shall be deemed citizens of this commonwealth, until they relinquish that character in manner as herein after expressed: And all others not being citizens of any the United States of America, shall be deemed aliens. The clerk of the court shall enter such oath of record, and give the person taking the same a certificate thereof, for which he shall receive the fee of one dollar. And in order to preserve to the citizens of this commonwealth, that natural right, which all men have of relinquishing the country, in which birth, or other accident may have thrown them, and, seeking subsistance and happiness wheresoever they may be able, or may hope to find them: And to declare unequivocably what circumstances shall be deemed evidence of an intention in any citizen to exercise that right, it is enacted and declared, that whensoever any citizen of this commonwealth, shall by word of mouth in the presence of the court of the county, wherein he resides, or of the General Court, or by deed in writing, under his hand and seal, executed in the presence of three witnesses, and by them proved in either of the said courts, openly declare to the same court, that he relinquishes the character of a citizen, and shall depart the commonwealth; or whensoever he shall without such declaration depart the commonwealth and enter into the service of any other state, not in enmity with this, or any other of the United States of America, or do any act whereby he shall become a subject or citizen of such state, such person shall be considered as having exercised his NATURAL RIGHT of expatriating himself, and shall be deemed no citizen of this commonwealth from the time of his departure...”
(emphases mine)
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a4_2_1s4.html
STE=Q
It can’t be real! It can’t be real! That would mean Obama lied and there’s a COVERUP! Waaaaanh!
Note the picture of Junior with Senior at age 10 on Senior’s one and only visit. What purpose could that possibly have served if Senior weren’t his father? Notice how Junior drapes Senior’s arm around himself desperately longing for a connection to him and the proud look on Junior’s face.
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Is this a joke? Please tell me you’re joking. I don’t see any of that in that photo. Maybe that’s what you want to see.
The lack of a record means nothing. There are plenty of so-called public records that have never surfaced in regard to Obama. Have you not seen the lists posted here?? Second, you're missing the point I mentioned earlier about Obama believing he had lost his U.S. citizenship (providing he ever had it) and voluntarily acted as an Indonesian citizen as an adult without ever legally establishing or re-establishing U.S. citizenship ... and tried to conceal this from the public. For example, did he register as foreign student at Occidental?? The issue isn't just about his citizenship, but his dishonesty, lack of transparency and whether he may have committed criminal fraud at some point.
The evidence suggests it's not. No raised seal. No registrar's signature. No issue date.
Absolutely pathetic. Danae getting her long form so shoots your theories and explanations. I am SO enjoying the twist and spin!
“Here’s what I suspect. They sent you a short-form COLB, just like the one Obama posted, and that’s what the receipt is for.”
WRONG. Wrong wrong wrong.
Beyond that fact, Jamese777 won’t be able to prove ANYTHING about anything sent to me by HDOH, because he CAN’T. He doesn’t have any interest in my documents, and just like Obama, HDOH is not ALLOWED to discuss anything about anyone’s records with out proof of interest in the records. So Jamese777 can’t prove or DISPROVE anything.
I posted what I got from HDOH. What I got was not a COLB. It was a black and white copy of my Long Form. Want proof Sherlock? Ok, look at the bottom of the black and white. What do you see? It lists the race of my parents. That is information I have NO WHERE ELSE. It is not on the photocopy I got from my Mom in 2000. It is what is on my records at HDOH.
Now, I think it clear just who is lying. That would be YOU and Jamese777.
Jamese can’t get a single iota of information regarding my records. Not a single bit. He has no interest in them and so HDOH, by law, can’t tell him WHAT was sent to me or under what circumstances.
So there we are. I have posted legitimate and real documents which were mailed to me by HDOH. All YOU have is a cock-n-bull story trying to make it seem as if they aren’t legit or real.
The only one throwing accusations around WITH OUT PROOF is YOU.
I have proven what I got. They have been scanned and posted.
Now, run off to your obamabottleholder and find your binky.
Danae let Onaka choose which one to send her after she honestly told him she did not know if she needed a certified long form birth certificate. Onaka chose to send her the un-certified copy. The real hypocrite lives in the White House who will not submit his Hawaiian COLB to any court of law as evidence that he was born in Hawaii. I'll bet you Danae would voluntary submit her long form birth certificate to a court to prove who and where she was born. And don't give me that no court has not asked Obama as that is a totally absurd and stupid excuse for someone who says he is president.
It means everything. If he had renounced his citizenship, we would know about it.
There are plenty of so-called public records that have never surfaced in regard to Obama.
Such as?
Mave you not seen the lists posted here??
Yes, and nothing on those lists, that I recall, is public information. Can you provide a counterexample?
Second, you're missing the point I mentioned earlier about Obama believing he had lost his U.S. citizenship (providing he ever had it)
Oh, that's interesting. What evidence do you have that he believed he lost his citizenship?
and voluntarily acted as an Indonesian citizen
Really? What evidence do you have that he voluntarily acted as an Indonesian citizen?
as an adult without ever legally establishing or re-establishing U.S. citizenship ...
Why would he have to re-establish something he never lost?
and tried to conceal this from the public.
How?
For example, did he register as foreign student at Occidental??
Why would he do such a thing? What possible benefit could he derive from this?
The issue isn't just about his citizenship, but his dishonesty, lack of transparency and whether he may have committed criminal fraud at some point.
You have no evidence of any criminal fraud.
Dishonesty, lack of transparancy, sure, but unfortunately, these aren't impeachable offenses.
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