Posted on 10/05/2010 6:01:36 AM PDT by Kaslin
where did you dig up that nugget ???
If you want to do an experiment then join Las Vegas Metro. Every time you get a call that someone is armed, threatening, under the influence of drugs, and reaches for his gun when you first approach him, do your politeness routine. Let us know how it goes.
The doctor testified at the inquest.
>> In any case, I don’t see how that justifies the cops shooting a man whose gun was still in its holster,
Every so often we get a situation that reeks of gross injustice. Such is the case here I believe.
Oh, don't get me wrong, those cops were buttheads. So were the nasty female cop that threatened me with arrest for standing on a sidewalk with a protest sign minding my own business. But that doesn't mean all cops are bad, or that there aren't some whole departments that suck and some whole departments that are really professional. In fact, every other interaction I've had with law enforcement has been professional, including a run-in with more cops on the same street corner a few weeks later.
I stand by my statement. Much of the anti-cop stuff on this board amounts to bigotry, plain and simple.
BTW, what did you do about those cops?
As far as I can tell the source of your information is Erik's father and he admits the search and taking of items was legal. Do you have any more information about it?
must be nice to allow hearsay testimony, uncrossed at an 'inquisition'...
Im supposed to believe he went to a doc and asked for pain meds for depression, when he had demonstrable injuries that could actually result in pain ???
and as far as yer petty lil 'stand in the trenches' routine, garbage men are civil servants too, without all the life & death split second decisions...maybe curly couldnt pass the physical though...
I know a few people who carry two. Most of them have past military or LEO service and heartily believe in having a 'backup' (often smaller and lighter caliber) weapon in case their strong side arm/hand is disabled in an altercation so they can continue to defend themselves without fumbling for their main weapon.
No, I neither consider it unusual nor 'crackpot', but simply good preparation for any fracas one might end up in. Since these are guys who have been in such situations either in combat or the line of duty, it seems prudent.
Keep in mind that I come from a state where the CCW is for the person, not the individual weapon: the number of weapons on your person is at your individual discretion (you do not require an individual permit for each firearm or other dangerous weapon unless NFA rules apply).
Now it's a "search"? I thought they were just securing property & firearms...
LOL! Fastest I've ever seen a "civil servant" move. The Public Administrator’s Office is to be commended for their zeal & single-minded dedication to "gettin' 'er done" on a Saturday evening. ROTFLMAO! A Saturday evening!
BTW - Waco and Ruby Ridge were legal too...
“Every time you get a call that someone is armed, threatening, under the influence of drugs, and reaches for his gun when you first approach him, do your politeness routine. Let us know how it goes.”
Except you are comparing apples with oranges. Scott was visibly exiting the store calmly - so much so that 6 seconds before shooting, the cops didn’t realize he was the person they had been called about.
Nor did Scott reach for his gun as the cops approached him. As best as I can figure out the testimony, someone (Mosher) touched Scott from behind. Scott turned and faced him, while also touching his gun - commonly done to see if it is still there after someone puts their hand on you from behind. The cops then said ““Put your hands where I see them now, drop it, get on the ground, get on the ground...” and opened fire - almost in one motion. As quickly as they could say it, they opened fire - TWO seconds from the first spoken word to shooting.
That says a lot about what happened.
In roughly TWO seconds, Mosher touched Scott, Scott turned to face him and also reached to check on his weapon. The cops shouted “Put your hands where I see them now, drop it, get on the ground, get on the ground...” and fired - all in the next two seconds.
So here is your 6 seconds sequence:
During the first two seconds, Scott is identified to the cops and Mosher moves behind him.
During the middle two seconds, Mosher touches Scott, who pushes Mosher’s arm away while turning to face him & checking for his gun.
During the final two seconds, the cops start issuing commands and open fire. Frankly, Scott never stood a chance. What he did was immaterial. In the course of 4 seconds, he went from exiting the store to a bullet in his heart. Try it yourself - you’re walking along, believing yourself to be a law abiding person. In 4 seconds, someone touches you from behind, you turn, they start giving commands and point their guns at you and open fire...what would you have done? Would you have realized, that quickly, what was happening and dropped to your knees while raising your hands? You have TWO SECONDS from first word to death!
If the time line posted on http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/306409.php is accurate, Scott never had a chance. He was killed before he could realize that HE was the suspect, and that the cops were ready to use deadly force.
Now, think about MY way...don’t confront at the entrance because it is crowded. Wait until the parking lot, then walk towards him - so he can see you - and simply ask him if he can talk to you for a minute. If that had happened, do you think Scott would have drawn his gun and opened fire?
Remember, to fire Scott’s gun, he needs to pull it out of the holster & rack the slide to arm it, and then fire. Is there ANYTHING that makes you think Scott was interested in killing any cops that day? ANYTHING?
No one has accused Scott of having a gun in his hand as he exited the store. No one has accused him of acting erratically leaving the store. No one - including the cops - looked and thought “That man is behaving dangerously!”
No one.
Yet within 4-5 seconds of being identified to the cops, Scott was fatally wounded.
And you call that good police work? Based on the time line, it is at least manslaughter - taking actions that a reasonable person could expect to result in the death of an innocent person.
“If you want to do an experiment then join Las Vegas Metro. Every time you get a call that someone is armed, threatening, under the influence of drugs, and reaches for his gun when you first approach him, do your politeness routine. Let us know how it goes.”
One other point - I’ve been in combat. I’ve been shot at. I didn’t just start shooting back. Know your target. Know the ROE and comply with it. Discipline!
It is something Mosher doesn’t seem familiar with...
I listened to the audio tape!!
The girlfriend did not give them permission to enter their apartment.
I have seen no evidence where the father condoned this.
That means Scott unclipped his holster from his rear waistband and moved it and the gun in front of himself very quickly if you're timeline is correct, which we don't know.
I don’t think the father condoned it, but he didn’t call it illegal either. There’s a letter to the editor by him with the information. It’s easy to find if you care to check the accuracy of your sources.
It is something Mosher doesn’t seem familiar with...
Mosher complied with the laws of Nevada and his training based on the information he had. Mosher identified the person who was known to him to be armed, under the influence of drugs, and threatening. He gave the person a chance to comply with verbal commands. The person didn't comply, but went for his gun and pointed at Mosher. Mosher fired at the center of mass, which reduces the chances that a bystander will be hurt. The other officers also fired at the center of mass until the threat was ended (sometimes the suspect has another weapon). The threat was ended and no bystanders were hurt. The jury at the inquest made a unanimous decision (though unanimity was not required) in less than two hours that the shooting was justified.
The police had NO WARRANT !!
Here’s what the father said........
The Public Administrator (PA) gambit. On the day Erik was killed, the PA’s office called my other son, Kevin, within two hours, frantically trying to get “someone from the family” to give the PA permission to enter Erik’s condominium unit. Ostensibly, they were to (lawfully) secure valuables and any “weapons” prior to a family member arriving on-scene. Kevin spoke to the PA official once, explaining that he was in Dallas, Texas, and would be in Las Vegas the next morning, but would be airborne the next few hours, returning to Southern California.
While Kevin was in the air, unable to use his cell phone, the same PA official called again and again, leaving multiple voice-mails about the importance of obtaining family permission to break into Erik’s residence. A final message was to the effect that he really didn’t need permission to break the lock and go in, so he was doing so. No worries, though. He would be accompanied by a Metro police officer. That’s not unheard of, but it’s not typical for Metro to go with a PA, when entering the residence of a homicide victim, before a family member can be onsite. However, it’s also a convenient, quasi-legal way for police to paw through a victim’s belongings, without the inconvenience of obtaining a legal search warrant.
We’re not accusing the PA or Metro of taking anything, but these are the facts: Two items that we believe were in Erik’s condo are missing, but did not appear on the list of items the PA removed. One of those items is very important, and there’s currently no explanation for it “going missing” If it shows up as “evidence,” then we’ll know how Metro and the DA plan to virtually guarantee a “justified” verdict this week. That little gambit will never fly, though, if and when an unobstructed federal investigation into Erik’s death is conducted.
According to the father, they apparently didn't need one. BTW, did either of the two mystery objects show up at the inquest?
Since Scott was at the tail end of the people evacuated, that means there was a crowd outside that had been standing there for a while watching the police and wondering what this was about, for quite a while. The police had time to set up a command post. Yet no one had a cell phone camera and used it. Even with the traffic on the police scanner, and the parking lot full of police cars and ambulances, no one from the MEDIA was there, or they had no cameras????????????????
Again, what are the odds?
I said no such thing...... as a former deputy sheriff I agree with all your points shy of implied comments.
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