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Red China: Chinese think tank warns US it will emerge as loser in trade war
The Telegraph ^ | 9/14/2010 | Ambrose Evans-Pritchard

Posted on 09/14/2010 1:44:53 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

A State Council think-tank in China has warned Washington that the US will come off worst in a trade war if it imposes sanctions against Beijing over the two nations' currency spat.

Ding Yifan, a policy guru at the Development Research Centre, said China could respond by selling holdings of US debt, estimated at over $1.5 trillion (£963bn). This would trigger a rise in US interest rates. His comments at a forum in Beijing follow a string of remarks by Chinese officials questioning US credit-worthiness and the reliability of the dollar.

China's authorities seem split over how to respond to moves on Capitol Hill for legislation to punish Beijing for holding down the yuan. The central bank has ruled out use of its "nuclear weapon", insisting that it would not exploit its $2.45 trillion of foreign reserves for political purposes. "The US Treasury market is a very important market for China," it said.

However, the mood is hardening on both sides of the Pacific. The dispute risks escalating if China's trade surplus with the US climbs further and more US jobs are lost. US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner, who has taken a softly-softly line in the past, said on Friday that China had done "very little" to correct the undervaluation of the yuan since ending the dollar peg in June.

Mr Ding reflects thinking among some in the Poltiburo, who seem convinced that the US is in decline and that China's rise as an exporter of goods and capital give it the upper hand.

"They are utterly wrong," said Gabriel Stein from Lombard Street Research. "The lesson of the 1930s is that surplus countries with structurally weak domestic demand come off worst in a trade war."

He described the implicit threat to sell Treasuries as "empty

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: china; goldbugs; mao; maozedong; marxwouldbeproud; obamao
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To: TopQuark

Sorry, missed the Roofer example.
So I take it you are OK with people coming here illegally, Taking Americans jobs, because they work cheaper.


101 posted on 09/15/2010 3:58:09 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
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To: 1rudeboy
n00bs on econ threads end up getting banned anyway, so you're really not worth the effort.

I understand you're trying to keep in character, but did you actually read this before posting it? You want me to be banned because I support buying American to help Americans keep their jobs?

A number of people have tried to explain to you the economic consequences of "spending just 50 cents extra" for something, and you can't grasp it.

For once we agree. I can't grasp the idea that shipping jobs, not to mention revenue and advanced technology, to China, and then borrowing money from them to pay for the unemployment benefits for the people we laid off, is a good policy.

Speaking of which, you never answered my question. How do you feel about all of this technology being exported to China so that you can buy a computer for less? Surely, that's a simple question for one with your expertise to answer.

102 posted on 09/15/2010 4:24:59 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TopQuark
Last Dakotan: We still make pens? Where?

TopQuark: And how are you going to implement this --- via tariffs? And what about TV sets, given that none is produced in the U.S. for decades?

As you point out, TVs aren't produced here any more. Do you want to see that happen on a larger scale? I don't, and I don't need tariffs to want to keep jobs, not to mention industries like electronics, over here.

103 posted on 09/15/2010 4:25:02 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Me? Want you banned? That would be silly. I want you to stay and illustrate the economic fallacy that a benevolent government, through its actions, can "save" jobs (and "save" money doing so). Is there anything the government cannot do?

And I'm under no obligation to shift the conversation to the topic you want, when you won't even acknowledge the Law of Unintended Consequences. The fact that you cannot even comprehend it in the scope of a discussion about government intervention into the market indicates that you probably drifted onto the wrong website.

104 posted on 09/15/2010 4:33:22 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
I want you to stay and illustrate the economic fallacy that a benevolent government, through its actions, can "save" jobs

Where did I make the claim that our benevolent government can save our jobs. Quite the opposite, I agreed with you that their interference is making things worse.

And I'm under no obligation to shift the conversation to the topic you want, when you won't even acknowledge the Law of Unintended Consequences.

Shipping our technology to other countries has EVERYTHING do with unintended consequences, as do laying off the American consumers you're counting on to buy your cheaper products and borrowing money from foreign countries to pay their unemployment benefits.

And you're right, you have no obligation to answer my question. Just remember that I'm not the only one reading your failure to reply to it.

105 posted on 09/15/2010 4:48:43 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Where did I make the claim that our benevolent government can save our jobs.

I'm glad people are reading this, because they see you spinning like a top. Let's say your benevolent government chooses to save some jobs in the steel-producing industry . . . in order "save" money on unemployment benefits, etc., as you postulate. How many jobs in the steel-consuming industry are you willing to sacrifice, and pay unemployment benefits for? How are you so certain you are "saving" anything? Remember, this is our government we're discussing.

Until you can answer the above without another one of your dodges, then you haven't demonstrated that you are capable of understanding my response to your question.

106 posted on 09/15/2010 4:58:39 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
I'm glad people are reading this, because they see you spinning like a top. Let's say your benevolent government chooses to save some jobs in the steel-producing industry

As I said to YOU SEVERAL TIMES, I don't support government interference. I don't need government interference to know it's in my best interest to buy American and help keep jobs here.

Remember, this is our government we're discussing.

Yup, they couldn't even teach you how to read.

107 posted on 09/15/2010 5:04:11 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Ok, genius . . . take a look at your comment #3. How do you propose compelling people to pay 50 cents more for a pen? You plan to send a nice letter to the pen company asking it to raise its price?

There's really no point in having this conversation if you can't even remember what you've written.

108 posted on 09/15/2010 5:11:04 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
I started that post off with "We don't need sanctions." I presented that as a choice we can make for ourselves. I didn't say anything about compelling people to make the choice. Where do you see any endorsement of government interference to compel anything in that?
109 posted on 09/15/2010 5:20:50 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
Ok, fine . . . you were navel-gazing and stating the obvious at the same time. So, let's say you buy ten pens a year, and you willingly forked-over that "extra" five dollars (and bear in mind, no one is telling you that you can't do with your money what you want). Now let's say that your typical out-of-work employee who is eligible for unemployment compensation receives $400 per month, based on an $800 per month salary (I just made those numbers up).

How far did your five dollars go?

110 posted on 09/15/2010 5:32:51 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Toddsterpatriot

I bought a pair of boots from Red Wing for twice what I paid for china crap. They have lasted me four years, the china made boots, 6 month of discomfort.

I just purchase a saw blade from Bad Dog tools, and drill bits. The cost is at least three times what I spent on a regular blade, and the bits, 180 for a set up to a one inch drill. We will see how long they last, but i they are half as good as they look in the Demo I made a good deal.

Just bought a JD tractor, 100% American Made. Did not cost me a dime more then the Kubota I could have purchased. Same quality, same price.


111 posted on 09/15/2010 7:02:29 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
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To: 1rudeboy

In this case the 25 cents is worth it to see fellow country-men working.


112 posted on 09/15/2010 7:21:09 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
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To: Colvin
Just bought a JD tractor, 100% American Made.

I wish I could state that Deere itself follows your "Buy American" Strategy.

113 posted on 09/15/2010 7:38:36 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: 1rudeboy
And your pissant company couldn't handle the business I'd bring in.

You make me laugh. You have to be careful what you say around here - people will call you on it.

114 posted on 09/15/2010 7:47:00 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: 1rudeboy

Damn, I miss Ponderosa....


115 posted on 09/15/2010 11:01:14 PM PDT by The Pack Knight (Laugh, and the world laughs with you. Weep, and the world laughs at you.)
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To: Last Dakotan
You have to be careful what you say around here - people will call you on it.

Call me what, exactly? Names? Start acting sanctimonious? Maybe issue a death threat or two? (Haven't seen one of those in a while).

And just to put the resume issue to bed, I sent mine to U.S. Steel once. I was called in for an interview (to my surprise), but the first words out the guy's mouth were "I don't have a job for you, I just wanted to meet you."

So we sat for an hour and chatted about things like electric arc furnaces, unfunded pension liabilities, and "too big to fail" (He laughed at the last one, while I noted the incongruity of his doing so in a teak-lined office).

Not really making a point, just sharing the story. And maybe reminding you, in my own way, that I made my name 42 to 48 thousand pounds of steel at a time, while it appears that your company (I might be incorrect, but no matter--you still act it) looks like it does a lot of its shipping via FedEx or UPS.

116 posted on 09/16/2010 6:01:49 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Last Dakotan

I wish the same thing.
The Japanese Yamnar is made in the US, so that is a plus.


117 posted on 09/16/2010 1:46:48 PM PDT by Colvin (Proud Owner '66 Binder PU, '66 Binder Travelall,)
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To: 1rudeboy
Ok, fine . . . you were navel-gazing and stating the obvious at the same time.

Whatsamatter, run out of straw men?

How far did your five dollars go?

If it didn't pay for foreign nukes that could be used against us, I'll fork over the extra $5.00. If it saves the jobs of Americans who in turn buys products from my company, then it will come back to me anyway. And if those jobs I helped save happen to be held by Vets, well, no Freeper can argue with that.

118 posted on 09/16/2010 3:58:25 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
You don't know what a strawman argument is, frankly . . . and I found some Bic pens made in the U.S.A. being sold at Wal-Mart. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

I haven't been to my local Wal-Mart to confirm it, but I will.

119 posted on 09/16/2010 4:16:33 PM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy
and I found some Bic pens made in the U.S.A. being sold at Wal-Mart. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

I hope it doesn't disappoint you that I see this as good news.

120 posted on 09/16/2010 4:35:01 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Compassionate Conservatism? Promoting self reliance is compassionate. Promoting dependency is not.)
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