Posted on 08/30/2010 6:33:31 AM PDT by Jenny Hatch
Visalia, Calif. • A Mormon church official was shot dead between services on Sunday, and less than an hour later, the man suspected of the crime also died after a shootout with police.
Clay Sannar, 42, a lay bishop with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Visalia, southeast of Fresno, died after being shot in his office, said Visalia police chief Colleen Mestas.
Soon after the first shooting, a caller identified himself to police as the shooter. Police responded, and there was a confrontation with several shots exchanged, said Mestas.
The suspect was hit multiple times. He was taken to nearby Kaweah Delta Medical Center, where he was pronounced dead. He has not been identified yet. No officers were injured, Mestas said.
Tulare County sheriff’s deputies are taking over the investigation of the shootout involving the police officers. The sheriff’s department did not immediately return calls for comment.
Visalia police continue to investigate Sannar’s shooting, but have not identified a motive.
(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...
Given my implied track record I expect to be proven a fraud and a liar any minute now...
One simple mistake is not enough I MUST HAVE MOIRE!
Please take me to task Reno!
I long for it!
Lying for the lord - bottled and brought to you since 1830
As for being zealous, why be apologetic about it? It is fine to be zealous, provided the purpose is good, and to be so always and not just when I am with you. (apostle Paul, Gal. 4:18)
I mean, what, Reno? Lds missionary zeal is commendable, but other zeal from other sources is condemned?
I suppose Mormon missionaries can give up 2 full years of their lives to go around & weekly, if not daily, talk about the universal apostasy & restoration...yet if Christians object to this term of "apostate" imposed upon them by Mormons & Mormon missionaries, and if we do so zealously, then you trot out your list of labels...and liberal-tactic like, treat other posters the way we see liberals do it all the time.
Little substantive discussion & dialogue. Just paint them as extremists so they can be readily dismissed. (Reno, that's also what the MSM does)
...they are fanatical in their actions & beliefs. Psychologically, fanatics tend to be somewhat unstable.
So are we to conclude, then, Reno, that anyone who yields two years of prime-time life, leaving family, girlfriend, family contact, behind to follow 70+ rules that effectively treat you like a 10-12 yo, riding a bike for two years along with a backpack, bothering people door-to-door to impose their religious viewpoint upon others during their 70-hour work weeks...that these "fanatics" are "somewhat unstable"? Fanaticism for thee but not for others?
Jihadists of any kind tend to try & impose their will/opinions upon the rest. They believe that it's their way or the highway. There's no room for opposing opinions, theirs is all that matters.
So, do you realize that also qualifies most Mormon missionaries as "jihadists." The Lds missionaries I've encountered "tend to try & impose their will/opinions upon" their unwilling subjects answering doorbells & knocks. These Lds missionaries tend to "believe that it's their way" -- 'cause if they feel they are not making headway with a given prospect, they hit "the highway. There's no room for opposing opinions, theirs" (their version of the Mormon "gospel") "is all that matters."
Does that translate into the possibility that one of the fanaticals here could actually shoot a Mormon bishop?, someone, a poster, we really know virtually nothing about? Perhaps, but I would think it highly unlikely in this case. Stranger things have happened..
You know if I thought the way that you do, I'd be all over the supposed "propensity" that there's something about being a one-time member of the Mormon church that somehow "weighs in" & produces mass-murderers. What do I mean? If you combine this shooting with the last church shooting in Colorado Springs, CO, what did the shooters have in common? One-time membership in the Mormon church.
I mean, if I took your line of thinking, I'd say, "Hmmm...we don't see all these ex-Presbyterian shooters, or ex-Methodist shooters, or ex-Nazarene shooters...or ex-charismatic shooters...but here we see these ex-Mormon shooters." If I took your line of thinking, I might wonder, "Hmm...are they brainwashing their members to leave the church & go shoot up other churches?"
Sometimes behavior is indeed contagious & epidemic; yet, these shooters also had mental issues apart from any religious standing.
Otherwise, though, why the constant barrage of going around & labeling people as "anti-Mormons" and "Christian jihadists?" Is that so you don't have to deal with what they're saying? You can just label them up front, so that you don't have to deal with them as individual people making truth claims that competes with yours?
Never wrong no matter which way the facts break, never having to back up an accusation, can play victim and still come off superior at the same time...
If I could just chuck that having a conscious and the whole being rational thing I think I could do it...
You’re correct. No accountability or responsibility.
Nor do I. But that, of course, is a term that etymologically comes from overheavyhanded dads who sometimes rightfully spanked their kids and sometimes overdid those bounds -- and overdid boundaries (like taking teens to the woodshed).
I guess coming from a person who is accustomed to spiritually heavyhanded men in their 60s & 70s spiritually who sometimes rightfully "discipline" others & other times have abused their hierarchy to go beyond proper spiritual boundaries...men who are otherwise part of what's known as "General Authorities," we can understand why Reno might choose such a phrase.
But you see, Reno, Evangelicals (unlike the Mormon hierarchy, perhaps more of the Mormon hierarchy of the past than the present???) don't take people to private woodsheds either to spank or beat them.
Unless of course, you're talking about being accused of bearing some responsibility for the Bishop's death, smeared by ad hominem and personal attacks, lying, obfuscating, dismissing comments, etc. You know, all of those activities that make for such stimulating and adult conversation. I tip my hat to you all, you've done an outstanding job.
Touche' Szonian! You've hit the nail on the head. Of course, Reno & PD & other Mormons haven't been alone in this. They've had plenty of non-Christian and non-Mormon allies. Indeed 2010 posts have probably had more "such stimulating and adult conversation" prompters than I've ever seen! (Not! As you say, Szonian, precisely the opposite!)
I find this interesting Colofornian - I have not seen a single post advocating closing mormon churches, denying the missionaries their works, or any other freedom to believe what ever they want. However, when they find themselves on the losing end of the discussion of theology, suddenly it is hate, jihad, etc. Well, I see the mentality that resulted in the destruction of the Nauvoo Expositor is still alive and well.
You mean "General J. Smith"?
Not him!
He certainly wouldn't attempt to do that to a whole state and ultimately the USA would he?
When they can bring me proof that we have shut down a single temple then I will cede the point.
Ironically any such activity would be bad strategy and really stupid. When the truth is on your side you can afford to fight fair out in the open.
One last irony that I also love is the arguments about freedom to practice religion we see here from LDS and their mostly unwitting allies. Not only do we do or say NOTHING that would imply that they should not be allowed to practice as they wish, in telling us to stop defending our faith against the attacks that are at the very core of Mormon theology they are doing PRECISELY what we are being falsely accused of.
It just gets better and better...
Nauvoo Expositor ring a bell. Or we could review the Young era
“I say, rather than that apostates should flourish here, I will unsheath [sic] my bowie knife, and conquer or die [Great commotion in the congregation, and a simultaneous burst of feeling, assenting to the declaration.]. Now, you nasty apostates, clear out, or judgment will be put to the line, and righteousness to the plummet [Voices, generally, ‘go it, go it.’]. If you say it is right, raise your hands [All hands up.]. Let us call upon the Lord to assist us in this, and every good work.”
- Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 1, p. 83
Indeed...
Irony...
When dealing with the LDS there is a buffet of irony all laid out before us.
Make the claim and run, tell the lie often and loud enough and someone might believe it.
Ironically any such activity would be bad strategy and really stupid. When the truth is on your side you can afford to fight fair out in the open.
Actually, it is mormons who seek to shut out public discourse. Right now a debate is going on in Manti where the temple is trying to finegale the city to sell public property to them in order to prevent Christians from witnessing to mormons there. Who is trying to force views on who.
zot
397
If I hated Mormons I would leave them in darkness to find out in death that it is not Joseph Smith that opens the doors to exaltation . His doorway leads to hells fire..
It is sad when an unbalanced man seeks a solution in death.. my sympathy to all the families for their loss...
Jim,
You missed one: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2579991/posts?page=72#72
This person actually insinuated that someone on FreeRepublic was the shooter.
ampu
You know that the odds of Reno232 answering your challenge to list misrepresentations did not change at all even though he got “zotted.” The odds are still zero.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.