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Can Google Swallow Apple? (Google is going after the iPad market)
Seeking Alpha ^ | 05/13/2010 | John Lounsbury

Posted on 05/13/2010 10:17:01 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

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To: Marie Antoinette
I wonder about how to get photos onto it, though. Will there be a camera in it someday? The biggest thing that appeals to me is the mobile access *without a contract*. I despise committing future earnings to payment contracts, and I just won’t do it. It will mostly be used just for fun.

How to turn an iPhone 3Gs into a wireless iPad camera

Apple has made it possible to use the iPad to connect to any WIFI or Bluetooth capable camera... this app combination uses the iPad/iPhone 3Gs combination over either WIFI or Bluetooth for just that purpose... and you can take photographs with the 3Gs controlled from the iPad... including zoom features. Or you can use the iPhone to control the picture taking and store the pictures on the iPad, Kind of neat.

There is no reason that third party camera companies could not make Bluetooth cameras with apps to connect their cameras to the iPad... better cameras with better lenses than could be stuffed inside a half inch thick case...

221 posted on 05/16/2010 11:27:30 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE isAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker
Please provide a link to a PUBLISHED article outlining your version. I don't believe you can... there are many published articles about the other version. YOU are the only one who I have ever heard pushing the “onerous conditions on Verizon” version

Neither Verizon nor Apple have issued any official statements on their negotiations that ultimately FAILED to produce a deal. Given that Apple held most of the cards (every cell phone company coveted the iPhone), the chances are it was Apple who's conditions were not acceptable to Verizon.
In addition, we know that AT&T's contract with Apple had a revenue share from monthly iPhone subscription revenues with Apple, so I don't see why it would have been different for Aple'snegotiations with Verizon.:
“Apple's not just getting revenue from iPhone sales, it's also receiving a portion of the monthly fees from AT&T's iPhone data plans, according to a financial analyst”
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9747031-7.html?tag=mncol

Most Windows applications are Windows OS agnostic”

Yeah?
Is that why lots of XP apps (including even device drivers) initially wouldn't work on Vista till Vista specific versions were written a few months after Vista came out?
In fact one of the biggest beefs that people had with Vista was that it broke so many XP apps.

Android is not so sanguine. There are many Android 2 Apps that simply will not work on the lower release Android OS... so if your Android phone cannot be upgraded, too bad, you can't use that App.”

Android is no different from Windows as far as apps are concerned, when Windows moved from XP to Vista. New versions of the apps for the latest versions of Android will always be written, just like they were for Vista.

222 posted on 05/16/2010 11:49:31 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
Neither Verizon nor Apple have issued any official statements on their negotiations that ultimately FAILED to produce a deal. Given that Apple held most of the cards (every cell phone company coveted the iPhone), the chances are it was Apple who's conditions were not acceptable to Verizon.

In other words, you made it up. You HAVE NO EVIDENCE FOR YOUR ASSERTION. I thought so.

223 posted on 05/17/2010 1:39:56 AM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE isAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Swordmaker
In other words, you made it up. You HAVE NO EVIDENCE FOR YOUR ASSERTION. I thought so

Don't make me laugh.
My assertions about why the Apple/Verizon negotiations broke down, are no more made up than yours.
Further, I provided this link showing that Apple extracted a revenue sharing agreement for iPhone subscribers from AT&T:
“Apple's not just getting revenue from iPhone sales, it's also receiving a portion of the monthly fees from AT&T's iPhone data plans, according to a financial analyst”
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9747031-7.html?tag=mncol

If they did that for AT&T, what makes you think they never tried to extract a revenue sharing agreement from Verizon as well?

224 posted on 05/17/2010 2:06:30 AM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: big'ol_freeper

Instead you choose to support a company that boycotted Glenn Beck for being “racist?” It must be nice to pick and choose when to be “conservative” and when to “look the other way.” Half of the Apple fanboys on this site are just stockholders sincerely afraid the money train will come to a halt, and they’re willing to suppress their politics in order to cash in.


225 posted on 05/17/2010 6:09:50 AM PDT by Thurston_Howell_III (Ahoy polloi... where did you come from, a scotch ad?)
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To: SmokingJoe
Toyota sells Lexus as well as Corolla's. That doesn't make the Lexus market and the Corolla market the same.

But it means that when Toyota started marketing Lexus, they were able to use thousands of existing relationships and connections in order to start the new brand, plus they got to re-use much of their existing car technology in the new brand. They had a much easier time than if they were, say, a start-up car company.

The dominant forces in smartphones at the time were RIM and Nokia. They still are.

Again specify your market. MS was a huge player in the US with Windows Mobile.

You are missing the fact that Microsoft made close to ZERO money on he first two versions of Windows, and may actually have lost a lot of money on them.

And for good reason. Apple, OTOH, decided not to release sub-par iPhones that nobody would want to use. Jobs instead required the designers to produce something decent. Thus Apple didn't make any money off the iPhone for years -- while it was under development.

Google is only just about to bring out Android 2.2.

Disingenuous. Android is based on a then (time of release) 16 year-old operating system. You also forget that Android comes from a mobile phone software company Google bought in 2005. There were also existing mobile versions of Linux for Google to go off of (this is Linux, Google can use the code directly).

As a standalone product, Android and the iPhone OS are about the same age.

Let's see a search engine from Apple which is even one tenth as good as that of Google then we can talk.

Let's see Google profiting directly from the sales of phones, or running the #1 music retailer on the planet, and then we'll talk. Face it: Apple simply has more ways of making money off the iPhone than google has for Android.

When a manufacturer has huge market shares in any free market, where any manufacturer is free to sell their product, their market share is not skewed by anything.

You're still missing the point. You said Nokia was the #1 smartphone vendor worldwide, but that meant nothing in the US market where Nokia was a bit player.

I‘ll back my Windows 7 laptop against your Apple mac any day in any comparison you care to mention.

Except for the fact that I don't have a laptop. But, yes, Macs are built better and have better hardware/software integration than almost all PCs, probably including your laptop.

And yippie you cna run games. That's disengenuous, assumes people want to run such games on their laptops. I prefer consoles for that. BTW, can you run Final Cut HD Pro? Didn't think so.

runs over a million apps already

Most of which are crap. I say this as a Windows developer.

The Android HTC Incredible, Desire and EVO 4G smoke any shipping iPhone in any way you care to mention.

As a current Android user, I can say the iPhone smokes them in usability and a seamless user experience.

And the Incredible. Such an advancement, it reintroduced music skipping during play in a digital player!

And that is even before the new super fast, smoking fast Android 2.2 hits the market next week.

Question: When will it hit the devices? The HTC Eris only recently got the 2.1 update.

226 posted on 05/17/2010 12:20:34 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: D-fendr

Bingo.


227 posted on 05/17/2010 12:22:21 PM PDT by montyspython
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To: antiRepublicrat
As a current Android user, I can say the iPhone smokes them in usability and a seamless user experience.

This is exactly where Windows fails and Android is failing. Google's success can be attributed to rehashing existing technology in a cool way and offering it for free.

In this instance, Apple's technology is already cool technology and Google can't improve on the user experience where they will continue to struggle because they don't have complete control over it by pushing Android to multiple vendors.

BTW, RIM will be dead in 10 years, they missed the boat and will not be able to catch up.

228 posted on 05/17/2010 12:40:09 PM PDT by montyspython
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To: Thurston_Howell_III

I didn’t realize that anybody lost their lives due to Glenn Beck’s not having advertising from Apple.

It would take an absolute idiot to equate that with the murder of pre-born human beings by the millions resulting from funding provided by Microsoft dollars to the UN.

Save me your sanctimonious BS.


229 posted on 05/17/2010 12:40:09 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: montyspython
BTW, RIM will be dead in 10 years, they missed the boat and will not be able to catch up.

RIM is deeply embedded in the enterprise with hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars worth of server hardware and software running the mobile communications of each of many large organizations. It can't die that fast.

230 posted on 05/17/2010 1:55:34 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat

Users are forced to use RIM because of the Enterprise, user’s overwhelmingly want to use their iPhones.

They use RIM because they have to, the use the iPhone because they want to. Android is already setup for enterprise integration as I have seen it work, and just as soon as the iPhone follows suit, RIM adoption is bye bye.

I consider the Palm Pre in pre zombie phase.


231 posted on 05/17/2010 2:04:39 PM PDT by montyspython
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To: antiRepublicrat
But it means that when Toyota started marketing Lexus, they were able to use thousands of existing relationships and connections in order to start the new brand

That never stopped the original Toyota foray into luxury cars, the Toyota Crown, from being bombing did it?
The Lexus became a raging success not because Toyota had “existing relationships and connections”. The Lexus became a success because it was an excellent product and stood up on it's own. Heck Toyotota was so anxious to have the Lexus brand be different, that the dealers for Totyotas and for the Lexus were even different.
Not to mention Mercedes and BMW have no “Corollas” of their own to carry any water for them and still do very very well in the luxury car business.
In the smartohne business, Mot and LG, which had the 2nd and 3rd biggest market shares in the non smart phone business, have never been able to use “existing relationships and connections” to leverage that into similar dominance of the smart phone business..ever. Nokia did, but then they have had their own Symbian OS, and their smartphone market share has been falling fast

232 posted on 05/17/2010 3:38:27 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: antiRepublicrat
Again specify your market.

Market?
What you talking about?
The world wide market of course.
We are not talking about Mars here are we?

MS was a huge player in the US with Windows Mobile”

Windows Mobile market share has never touched RIM market share in the US..ever.
Worldwide, Windows Mobile has never touched either RIM or Nokia.

And for good reason. Apple, OTOH, decided not to release sub-par iPhones that nobody would want to use”,/i>

You had yet another misfire right there.
I am talking about the first 2 versions of Windows, not Windows Mobile.
First two versions of Windows were total bombs in the market. It wasn't till Windows 3/3.1 that the Windows market finally took off.

Disingenuous. Android is based on a then (time of release) 16 year-old operating system”,/i>

It's still Andriod 2.2.
That's like saying Internet Exlorer was originally based on Mosaic that was licensed from NCSA thrugh Spyglass so therefore IE8 is actualy IE 50 or whatever
That would make a lot of sense. NOT!

As a standalone product, Android and the iPhone OS are about the same age”

Excuses. Excuses.
Bottom line: The iPhone was in the market, before Andriod smartphones were launched. The Androids came from behund and overtook the iPhine in US market share.

Let's see Google profiting directly from the sales of phones, or running the #1 music retailer on the planet, and then we'll talk. “

Google is already making money from Mobile search, albeit from a small base. But that's the beauty of it. Google is higly profitable even before the huge largely untapped mobile search revenue stream fully kicks in. It's pure upside. Apple in the other hand.... We'll see how many other mobile phone companies agree to the kind of cut throat revenue sharing(from iPhone monthly bills), that Aple was able to extract from ATT)

You're still missing the point. You said Nokia was the #1 smartphone vendor worldwide, but that meant nothing in the US market where Nokia was a bit player.”

No you are missing the point.
Nokia IS the # 1 smart and non smart phone vendor on the planet. That's all that counts. The European cell/smart phone market is bigger than that of the US, and the Chinese have more cell phone subscirbers than the entire US population, and getting bigger every single week.
The US market is but a small portiion of the world's smart phone market. To be a really big fish, you gotta be a big fish in a big pond.

But, yes, Macs are built better and have better hardware/software integration than “

/sarc..that's why Apple can't even get 4% market share worldwide. And that's why companies like Asus, Acer and Lenovo that started selling computers long after Apple did, have swept past Apple in market share in a very short time.

probably including your laptop. “

Dream on.

Most of which are crap. I say this as a Windows developer.”

Look, can accept that you develop crap, given that garbage you've en posting on this thread. But Windows 7 has some of the best apps on the planet. Most of the best developers on the planet work on Windows 7. All the top business apps, ERP’s, CRM’s, manufacturing software, accounting software etc work on Windows 7. That's why Windows dominates in corporate desktops.

As a current Android user, I can say the iPhone smokes them in usability and a seamless user experience. “

Chortle
Every review I have seen for the Andriod Incredible, Android Desire and Android EVO 4G have them smoking the iPhones.
But hey, feel free to live in denial, even as Androids continue to clobber the iPhones in US market share and show the iPhones a clean pair of heels.

Question: When will it hit the devices? The HTC Eris only recently got the 2.1 update”

Why don't you follow the Google I/O with live-streaming on Android this very week right here:
http://www.cnet.com/8301-19736_1-20005048-251.html
I'm am sure you will find out son enough.

233 posted on 05/17/2010 4:20:25 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: SmokingJoe
My assertions about why the Apple/Verizon negotiations broke down, are no more made up than yours.

On the contrary, Joe, there are numerous articles citing the offer to Verizon and uncontroverted statements by one of the parties to that offer contemporaneous to the announcement of the iPhone to back up my assertions. You have nothing.

Your linked article is the mere unsupported SPECULATION of an analyst with no facts upon which such speculation is founded. .. And assumptions that Apple even got to that level of negotiations.

Upon this you build a house of cards and claim evil Apple demands that noble Verizon valiently fought off... Revising history as you merrily make up facts to support your version of distorted reality.

234 posted on 05/17/2010 5:35:27 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE isAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: SmokingJoe
My assertions about why the Apple/Verizon negotiations broke down, are no more made up than yours.

On the contrary, Joe, there are numerous articles citing the offer to Verizon and uncontroverted statements by one of the parties to that offer contemporaneous to the announcement of the iPhone to back up my assertions. You have nothing.

Your linked article is the mere unsupported SPECULATION of an analyst with no facts upon which such speculation is founded. .. And assumptions that Apple even got to that level of negotiations.

Upon this you build a house of cards and claim evil Apple demands that noble Verizon valiently fought off... Revising history as you merrily make up facts to support your version of distorted reality.

235 posted on 05/17/2010 5:49:34 PM PDT by Swordmaker (Remember, the proper pronunciation of IE isAAAAIIIIIEEEEEEE!)
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To: Hodar
I was with you until you said 'Bose.' :)

Try some Shure headphones and you won't want to go back to Bose. I find them much more comfortable, MUCH easier to store and pack and better sound.

For a frequent traveler like me (Diamond on Delta), I want small, useful, and lightweight. I like the iPad but I will wait for the new Lenovo and Asus latest netbook tablets coming out before I make my decision.

236 posted on 05/17/2010 5:54:43 PM PDT by Solson (magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.)
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To: Swordmaker
On the contrary, Joe, there are numerous articles citing the offer to Verizon and uncontroverted statements by one of the parties to that offer contemporaneous to the announcement of the iPhone to back up my assertions

Nice one.
There is no official statement from either Apple , or Verizon on exactly why their negotiations broke down. And neither of them have confirmed or denied anything as far as those negotiations went.
On the other hand, we know the kind of deal that Apple reached with AT&T, and going on that, can hazard that at the very least, Apple tried to extract similar conditions with Verizon, but then Verizon wouldn't bite.

Your linked article is the mere unsupported SPECULATION of an analyst with no facts upon which such speculation is founded. .. “

That ‘speculation’ about Apple taking a cut from iPhone monthly revenues, happens to have been confirmed by Apple themselves. The only thing is, Apple never confirmed what the exact amount was.

Upon this you build a house of cards and claim evil Apple demands that noble Verizon valiently fought off”

Upon Steve Job's track record of bullying(Adobe says “HELLO!”), upon the fact that Apple themselves confirmed they take a slice of AT&T monthly iPhone revenues, upon the fact that Apple held all the cards at the time of the Verizon negotiations, since virtually every cell phone company badly coveted the iPhone at the time.

237 posted on 05/17/2010 5:57:32 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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To: Solson

For me, the iPad is perfect. My wife works for the airlines so travel is a perk. The iPads battery life being 10+ hrs is fantastic. Ripped 36 of my DVDs into it, then bought a koontz book on kindle and sat in my seat pretty much self absorbed for the duration.

If I have a whine it’s that most airports don’t have free wi fi. Guess I am going to have to break down and get the stupid Palm Pre Plus so can get free tethering


238 posted on 05/17/2010 6:04:53 PM PDT by Hodar (Who needs laws .... when this "feels" so right?)
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To: SmokingJoe
That never stopped the original Toyota foray into luxury cars, the Toyota Crown, from being bombing did it?

You don't understand the car market. Ask yourself why there's Ford and then Lincoln, why there's Chevy and then Buick and then Cadillac.

Initially Toyota thought it could just sell upscale cars under the Toyota brand, but that's not how the thinking goes in this country. Here we have the lower base brand, then the more expensive luxury brands as we can afford them. We don't pay luxury prices for the base brand. Toyota, Honda and Nissan all figured this out eventually.

Not to mention Mercedes and BMW have no “Corollas” of their own to carry any water for them

Actually, they do, just not in this market because we think of Mercedes and BMW as luxury-only brands. Here the smallest BMW you can get is a 128. In Germany you can get it as a 116 diesel. Here the cheapest Mercedes is a C300 sedan, while in Europe it's an A160, about half the price.

Going by local purchasing power, and counting they have a 19% sales tax, the bottom-end Mercedes and BMW in Germany are far lower-end and cheaper than here.

In the smartohne business, Mot and LG, which had the 2nd and 3rd biggest market shares in the non smart phone business, have never been able to use “existing relationships and connections” to leverage that into similar dominance of the smart phone business..ever.

Of course they did. They had distribution agreements with all the carriers. All they had to do was come out with new models that were smart phones, and it was a no-brainer that they would be sold through existing channels. Apple had to shop around for a carrier and build a relationship from scratch. Apple also had no previous phone building experience to go off of.

Nokia did, but then they have had their own Symbian OS, and their smartphone market share has been falling fast

No, Nokia used the available Symbian OS from Psion after Psion opened it to other phone manufacturers around 2001. Symbian didn't belong to Nokia until 2008.

239 posted on 05/17/2010 7:09:33 PM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: antiRepublicrat
Initially Toyota thought it could just sell upscale cars under the Toyota brand, but that's not how the thinking goes in this country

Toyota Crown bombing, had nothing to do with brand.
It had everything to do with quality. Crown just wasn't a very good car. Lexus got to where it is because of sheer quality and the motor awards it kept stacking up all across the world. You can create all the luxury brands you want, that will not make your luxury brand sell one whit, if your luxury brand car sucks.

We don't pay luxury prices for the base brand. Toyota, Honda and Nissan all figured this out eventually.”

Everyone knows Lexus is from Toyota.
The Lexus would be selling the same if it was called “Toyota Lexus” instead of just ‘Lexus’, based on the sheer quality and reuputiion of the product.

Actually, they do, just not in this market because we think of Mercedes and BMW as luxury-only brands. Here the smallest BMW you can get is a 128. In Germany you can get it as a 116 diesel. Here the cheapest Mercedes is a C300 sedan, while in Europe it's an A160, about half the price”

The cheapest BMW and Mercedes models cost a liot more than the cheapest Toyota, Hyundai and Ford models, and accordingly sell in far less numbers than the huge mass market brands from Toyota.

Of course they did’

They never have..ever.
At no time have LG or Samsung ever had high market share in the smart phone business. Ever!

They had distribution agreements with all the carriers”

Which still got them very low smartphone market share.

All they had to do was come out with new models that were smart phones, and it was a no-brainer that they would be sold through existing channels”

Yet, HTC, a far smaller company than Samsung or LG, which had much less strong relationships with cell phone companies, and zero market share in the non smart phone market, was able to come from behind, and swiftly overtake LG and Samsung in the US smartphine market share.

Symbian didn't belong to Nokia until 2008.”

No quite.
Nokia had already acquired majority and controlling interest in Symbain(56%) as far back as 2003, when Motorola sold their share of 19% to Nokia.
Nokia effectively controlled Symbian, they just didn't control all the shares at the time that's all.

240 posted on 05/17/2010 7:41:35 PM PDT by SmokingJoe
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