Posted on 04/27/2010 5:02:38 AM PDT by marktwain
Philip Van Cleave wants every Virginian who has a permit to carry a concealed handgun into a bar to be able to have a drink - or he wants no gun carrier to be able to drink.
That's the choice that Van Cleave, the leader of the pro-gun Virginia Citizens Defense League, wants to offer state lawmakers next year when the General Assembly reconvenes.
He said he is going to find a legislator to submit two bills to the body representing both positions.
His aim is to force lawmakers to expand the rights of concealed-handgun owners in bars or rescind the current exception that allows law-enforcement officers and commonwealth's attorneys to carry concealed weapons and consume alcohol.
"We're not allowed to drink, but they can," Van Cleave said. "That's two classes of citizens."
The proposal comes just days after Gov. Bob McDonnell, a Republican, signed into law a bill repealing the state's long-standing ban on holders of concealed-weapons permits carrying hidden guns into restaurants that serve alcohol. Permit holders will be allowed to enter with a firearm as long as they do not drink alcohol.
The law, which takes effect July 1, was a significant victory for the state's gun owners and the defense league, which had worked for 13 years on the issue.
"We've been fighting to get our rights back," Van Cleave told a gathering last Monday at the Second Amendment March in Washington.
(Excerpt) Read more at 2.timesdispatch.com ...
Consuming alcohol with sleep deprivation is even worse.
The incrementalist strategy has worked for the grabbers, but it’s now working for the good guys. Over time, VCDL has worked that strategy masterfully.
Getting rid of the restaurant ban was and has been the overriding objective. Now that the restaurant ban has been eliminated, it’s time to get rid of the restrictions that had to be agreed to in order to achieve the larger objective. While I think this all or none strategy is a gamble, it’s a prudent one.
I doubt that Courts of Jokers will let any bill get through next year. But that doesn’t really matter. The bold tortoise usually wins the race. VCDL has been pushing the rstaurant carry issue for as long as I can remember. And they’ll push the alcohol consistency issue this year, and the year after that, and the year after that. And eventually they’ll most likely prevail.
If you want to see a conservative lobbying organization that really works, take a look at VCDL and the organizations it has inspired such as opencarry.org and AzCDL.
You didn’t address my point. If you are going to address the “problem” of drinking while carrying (a problem which in reality does not exist), then are you going to mandate a given number of hours to sleep every night? And if so, how do you plan on enforcing it?
Because I agree 100%.....sleep deprivation is far worse than 1 drink.
(and yet I do not recall reading stories about CCW holders shooting their guns when they get tired!)
Yup, it happens every time. Just like the "conservatives" that came out against Constitutional Carry in AZ because they've been incrementally fed the idea that you need a permit or license to exercise your rights.
If you desire a ban, perhaps we can put a trigger lock tied to your biorhythms?
That's not what tgusa meant, nor why I agree with him. It's a simple safety issue which many old soldiers are accustomed to, alcohol and firearms don't mix. Sort of like drinking and driving.
Doesn't matter what he meant. The result of his position is exactly what I said. If you have one beer with dinner, you now must choose to either (a) become unable to defend yourself or (b) be a criminal under VA law.
>We all know that guns and alcohol do NOT mix; I don’t care who you are.
Agreed; it makes your drink taste like gun-oil...
“Even one beer slows your reaction time and reduces your accuracy.”
What I lack in accuracy I make up for in magazine capacity. /humor
>Even one beer slows your reaction time and reduces your accuracy.
So? Adrenaline will reduce your accuracy [a fine motor skill] too. {And, coincidentally why knives are considered to be more dangerous up-close, you can ‘take wild swings’ and still cut someone.}
You put yourself in that "other class" by choice, Mr. Van Cleave. If you don't want to be disarmed, don't enter the bar. Drink at home, and you can have it both ways. It's your choice.
Pretty simple, huh?
What you're proposing, instead, is to force the owner of the bar to allow your gun inside his business, against his will.
So, the business owner can either let you have your way or close his business. You can either let the business owner have his way or simply not enter the building.
Which solution is fair?
I side with the private property owner. The Constitution is a limitation on the power of the government, not a stick for beating private property owners into submission.
I’m against all gun laws aimed at the honest citizen. I hope if the law changes CCW holders will continue their common sense.
Actually, with concealed carry IMO it is my opinion it is nobodys business but the person carrying.
Can places of business not allow people with blue undershorts in? No? Then why is it okay with carrying something people will NEVER see?
So?
That's not the right attitude.
Apparently you didn’t read the rest of the paragraph.
“You put yourself in that “other class” by choice, Mr. Van Cleave. If you don’t want to be disarmed, don’t enter the bar. Drink at home, and you can have it both ways. It’s your choice.”
You may be misunderstanding the Virginia law. If you are carrying openly without a permit, you can go into the bar and drink. If you are carrying concealed without a permit, you can go into the bar, but not drink, so either way, you are armed. Those are the two classes that Mr. Van Cleave was talking about.
Wrong answer, FRiend. Yes, they can.
With the exception of race, religion, handicap, etc. (Civil Rights & Disabilities), thanks to federal law, a private property owner can choose whatever standard he likes in deciding who may or may not enter his property. Businesses included.
Oops on my part.
I believe it should be up to the business owner.
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