Richard Dawkins: I Will Arrest Pope Benedict XVI

London Times ^ | April 10th 2010 | Marc Horne

[Steelfish]

April 11, 2010 Richard Dawkins: I Will Arrest Pope Benedict XVI Marc Horne

Atheist campaigner Richard Dawkins RICHARD DAWKINS, the atheist campaigner, is planning a legal ambush to have the Pope arrested during his state visit to Britain “for crimes against humanity”.

Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens, the atheist author, have asked human rights lawyers to produce a case for charging Pope Benedict XVI over his alleged cover-up of sexual abuse in the Catholic church.

The pair believe they can exploit the same legal principle used to arrest Augusto Pinochet, the late Chilean dictator, when he visited Britain in 1998.

The Pope was embroiled in new controversy this weekend over a letter he signed arguing that the “good of the universal church” should be considered against the defrocking of an American priest who committed sex offences against two boys. It was dated 1985, when he was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which deals with sex abuse cases.

[grey_whiskers]

Speaking of grammar and erudition, perhaps you need to learn the difference between ‘here’ and ‘hear’ as well, as was apparent from your post on the other thread.

I know the difference: but I'm hard of hearing.

Umm, no, I didn’t. Killing of children has nothing to do with the Gita, which was my argument through the length of that entire thread, against Steelfish’s accusation to the contrary. Learn to refer to context, please.

I cut and pasted the specific statement on which my reply was based: and pointed out that your grammar was at fault.

I explicitly pointed out it was a grammatical issue, and did not attempt to link it to any other part of the thread.

Let’s not be Grammar Nazis, shall we?

Given that the Swastika is an Indian symbol, and the connection to Aryans, your falling into Godwin's Law is singularly maladroit.

And you haven't followed up on the Thuggees, either.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

There is no flaw in my argument.

You're just a lazy troll.

Cheers!

[grey_whiskers]

Ummm, no.

Paedophile Catholic priests were most likely infiltrated into the Church by the Marxists in an attempt to take down the institution. Child molestation is NOT part of Christian doctrine; but Thuggees were claiming that their killings were a direct act of worship to their goddess.

Indulgences were a monetary corruption, and unrelated to children.

Witch-hunters are irrelevant: unless you are talking about the liberals attacking Robert Bork or Ann Coulter.

Cheers!

[James C. Bennett]

Oh, I have, indeed! Look again.

I’m tired of your BS non-arguments. If you have anything sensible in future, I’ll let you know with a reply.

[James C. Bennett]

Umm, no.

Point out the mention of Thuggies, in the Gita.

I’m sure the Catholic Church has had a peachy history, full of rainbows and sugary candy. Just ask the Protestants.

[grey_whiskers]

You're projecting again, troll-boy.

Randomly getting into a verbal lather of non-sequiturs hoping to provoke an emotional reaction (your post 600), is not an argument.

Cheers!

[James C. Bennett]

Paedophile Catholic priests were most likely infiltrated into the Church by the Marxists in an attempt to take down the institution.

Divine intervention didn't intervene? And what do you mean by "most likely"? Are there exceptions that you are willing to admit to? Or do you prefer to stick with shifting moral standards?

[James C. Bennett]

You just LOVE comment-spamming with inane nonsense for the sake of hitting the ‘post’ button, don’t you?

Like I mentioned before, utterly juvenile, and completely trollish, as the definitions go.

[grey_whiskers]

Point out the mention of Thuggies, in the Gita.

I'm asking *you*. I'm not a Hindu, and won't defile myself reading pagan texts.

The Thuggees themselves said they were worshipping Kali; so I'd like to find out on what grounds they believed it, and the "orthodox" Hindu refutation of that claim.

For the nonce, what person or group decides which Hindu doctrines, or up-and-coming-soon-to-be-doctrines, are "heretical" or not? Does the word heretical even have an analog within Hindu thought?

Cheers!

[metmom]

Interesting reading here......

Killing for ‘Mother’ Kali
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/723646/posts

Hindus to end human sacrifice practice
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-6-2003_pg4_18

GUWAHATI: Hundreds of Hindu monks pledged Tuesday to fight ancient barbaric rituals of human sacrifices at temples in India where the grisly practice continues.

“A very miniscule cult still believes that to achieve supernatural magical powers one needs to sacrifice a child at the altar,” Biswajit Giri, a 45-year-old Hindu mystic, told AFP.

“The practice of human sacrifice ... has not died down completely and is being carried out in many select temples secretly.”

*************************************************************

Imagine that. Some people condemn the punishment of a society with the death penalty 4,000 years ago for crimes committed against them, but choose to ignore the ritual human sacrifice of children practiced as recently as a few years ago.

It looks like child slaughter IS in keeping with Hinduism in some way, shape, or form. A simple google search will bring up more results about it than the average person can stomach.

Busted.....

[grey_whiskers]

Divine intervention didn't intervene?

No, it often doesn't.

And what do you mean by "most likely"?

There are accounts (which you can find elsewhere on FR if you look) which purport to tell of explicit plans with the Soviet Union and/or other Marxist centers to put Communists and perverts into the structure of the Church hierarchy to weaken it on the inside and destroy its credibility.

The Commies are great plotters but don't always execute so well -- they are under tremendous pressure to succeed every time, so that sometimes they find it easier to lie about their accomplishments (see also "Five Year Plans").

Since I don't have the time or expertise to do an ab initio historical review of this data, it remains provisional.

Cheers!

[James C. Bennett]

 

LOL, and I'm telling you: There's none of it, in it.

A simple Gita verse clears the matter:

 

 

Yet not by Vedas, nor from sacrifice,

Nor penance, nor gift-giving, nor with prayer

Shall any so behold, as thou hast seen!

Only by fullest service, perfect faith,

And uttermost surrender am I known

And seen, and entered into, Indian Prince!

Who doeth all for Me; who findeth Me

In all; adoreth always; loveth all

Which I have made, and Me, for Love’s sole end,

That man, Arjuna! unto Me doth wend.

- Bhagavad Gita, Ch: XI, Lines 335 - 344.

[James C. Bennett]

Crimes committed against whom? What crimes did children and infants (and donkeys and horses) commit, to deserve ritual slaughter, as per 1 Samuel 15: 3?

You repeatedly avoid answering this. Does it trouble you so much?

[grey_whiskers]

You quote ONE verse from the Gita.

So what?

What did the Thuggees themselves quote to justify their behaviour?

What is the counter-argument to their usage?

Who within Hindu-ism is the arbiter?

Cheers!

[metmom]

For the nonce, what person or group decides which Hindu doctrines, or up-and-coming-soon-to-be-doctrines, are "heretical" or not? Does the word heretical even have an analog within Hindu thought?

Considering the number of gods that exist in Hinduism, I can't imagine that there's any constancy or doctrine to appeal to at all.

The google searches I did generally tended to state that Hindu is a potpourri of anything goes beliefs.

[James C. Bennett]

Thanks for giving us all a glimpse into the world of extraordinarily amazing conspiracy theories you seem to dwell in.

[James C. Bennett]

They have nothing to quote from the Gita, LOL!

[metmom]

Tell me what the children ritually slaughtered in Hinduism for years did to deserve it.

You’re really big on focusing on ONE incident involving the Israelites done for a specific reason, and ignoring that Hinduism is replete with ritual human and child sacrifice throughout its history.

You’re straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel

[grey_whiskers]

Thanks for giving us all a glimpse into the world of extraordinarily amazing conspiracy theories you seem to dwell in.

Hmmm -- even Tom Clancy wrote a novel about the Bulgarians trying to assassinate the Pope.

You are a bigger fool than you look if you think the Communists never tried to corrupt the Church.

Hint: see also "Venona cables" troll-boy, or this.

Yeah, yeah - Wikipedia. But you can confirm it with other sources.

The Commies wormed themselves into all *kinds* of places one would think "safe" from them.

Cheers!

[James C. Bennett]

Considering the number of gods that exist in Hinduism, I can't imagine that there's any constancy or doctrine to appeal to at all.

   The Bhagavad-Gita.
The Harvard Classics.  1909–14.

 

Chapter XII

 

 

ARJUNA: LORD! of the men who serve Thee—true in heart—
As God revealed; and of the men who serve,
Worshipping Thee Unrevealed, Unbodied, far,
Which take the better way of faith and life?
KRISHNA: Whoever serve Me—as I show Myself—	5
Constantly true, in full devotion fixed,
These hold I very holy. But who serve—
Worshipping Me The One, The Invisible,
The Unrevealed, Unnamed, Unthinkable,
Uttermost, All-pervading, Highest, Sure—	10
Who thus adore Me, mastering their sense,
Of one set mind to all, glad in all good,
These blessed souls come unto Me.
Yet, hard
The travail is for whoso bend their minds	15
To reach th’ Unmanifest. That viewless path
Shall scarce be trod by man bearing his flesh!
But whereso any doeth all his deeds,
Renouncing self in Me, full of Me, fixed
To serve only the Highest, night and day	20
Musing on Me—him will I swiftly lift
Forth from life’s ocean of distress and death
Whose soul clings fast to Me. Cling thou to Me!
Clasp Me with heart and mind! so shalt thou dwell
Surely with Me on high. But if thy thought	25
Droops from such height; if thou be’st weak to set
Body and soul upon Me constantly,
Despair not! give Me lower service! seek
To read Me, worshipping with steadfast will;
And, if thou canst not worship steadfastly,	30
Work for Me, toil in works pleasing to Me!
For he that laboreth right for love of Me
Shall finally attain! But, if in this
Thy faint heart fails, bring Me thy failure! find
Refuge in Me! let fruits of labor go,	35
Renouncing all for Me, with lowliest heart,
So shalt thou come; for, though to know is more
Than diligence, yet worship better is
Than knowing, and renouncing better still
Near to renunciation—very near—	40
Dwelleth Eternal Peace!
Who hateth nought
Of all which lives, living himself benign,
Compassionate, from arrogance exempt,
Exempt from love of self, unchangeable	45
By good or ill; patient, contented, firm
In faith, mastering himself, true to his word,
Seeking Me, heart and soul; vowed unto Me,—
That man I love! Who troubleth not his kind,
And is not troubled by them; clear of wrath,	50
Living too high for gladness, grief, or fear,
That man I love! Who, dwelling quiet-eyed,
Stainless, serene, well-balanced, unperplexed,
Working with Me, yet from all works detached,
That man I love! Who, fixed in faith on Me,	55
Dotes upon none, scorns none; rejoices not,
And grieves not, letting good and evil hap
Light when it will, and when it will depart,
That man I love! Who, unto friend and foe
Keeping an equal heart, with equal mind	60
Bears shame and glory, with an equal peace
Takes heat and cold, pleasure and pain; abides
Quit of desires, hears praise or calumny
In passionless restraint, unmoved by each,
Linked by no ties to earth, steadfast in Me,	65
That man I love! But most of all I love
Those happy ones to whom ’tis life to live
In single fervid faith and love unseeing,
Eating the blessèd Amrit of my Being!
Here endeth Chapter XII. of the Bhagavad-Gîtâ,	70
entitled “Bhakityôgô,” or “The Book of
the Religion of Faith”