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1 posted on 02/23/2010 5:58:18 AM PST by Ravnagora
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

2 posted on 02/23/2010 6:02:36 AM PST by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora

Astounding.


3 posted on 02/23/2010 6:19:38 AM PST by Darteaus94025
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To: Ravnagora

mark


4 posted on 02/23/2010 6:22:16 AM PST by nkycincinnatikid
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To: Ravnagora

Can’t say I’m surprised. I’ve read about this history for 20 years.

Those who don’t learn from history are condemned to repeat it.


5 posted on 02/23/2010 6:27:35 AM PST by deannadurbin
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To: Ravnagora

The main accusations in this article against Pius XII and Archbishop Stephinac were comprehensively demolished by the British historian Michael Burliegh, Sacred Causes.


7 posted on 02/23/2010 6:43:36 AM PST by Emerson Car
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To: Ravnagora

The Ustashi was the only group written up for brutality to prisoners. By the SS. Twice.


8 posted on 02/23/2010 6:46:43 AM PST by PzLdr ("The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" - Darth Vader)
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To: Ravnagora

Well written concise article by Julia


9 posted on 02/23/2010 7:33:07 AM PST by MadelineZapeezda (Promoted by God to be a mother!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...................Thanks, Susan!)
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To: Ravnagora

Something to note here that many Croatians, as pointed out in the article, were also liquidated by their own. Many Croatians nowadays employ the apologist tactic when addressing the issue of Jasenovac and the Vatican but can never seem to come to grips with the truth regarding both.

Even though they vehemently defend the Vatican’s actions and attempt to diminish the Ustasha, they are neglecting to acknowledge the fact that the Vatican had a hand in enabling the deaths of their fellow Croatians.


15 posted on 02/23/2010 8:41:01 AM PST by montyspython ("I don't believe in 'no win' scenarios." - James T. Kirk)
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To: Ravnagora
Julia Gorin is a failed leftist comic. Her family are Russian communists. Anything that she writes should be understood as an attack against the Catholic church. She's a crypto-communist masquerading as a conservative. Sort of like Frumm, Medved, or Horowitz.


29 posted on 02/23/2010 6:41:58 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: Ravnagora
Bush Wanted Photos with Croatian Soldiers

The soldier of the ISAF mission in Afghanistan, led by Mladen Kruljac, were surprised by the fact that Bush shook hands will all 50 of them.


30 posted on 02/23/2010 7:09:42 PM PST by grand wazoo
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To: Ravnagora; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

32 posted on 02/23/2010 7:24:21 PM PST by narses ("lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi")
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To: Ravnagora

33 posted on 02/23/2010 7:27:08 PM PST by big'ol_freeper ("Anyone pushing Romney must love socialism...Piss on Romney and his enablers!!" ~ Jim Robinson)
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To: Ravnagora

65 posted on 02/24/2010 7:57:22 AM PST by javie
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To: Ravnagora

The Catholic Church had nothing to do with it. Like most of Central Europe, Croatia was caught between two forms of evil, totalitarian socialism—Nazi and Communist. Pretty hard to distinguish between them. They were both amazingly evil, vile, and destructive.

As for the various killings, most of it was done by Stalin and Hitler. But they did stir up the old tribal hatreds in the region. Those were far from one sided. The Serbs, the Croats, and others had been killing each other for centuries, and who was originally responsible was pretty well lost in the sands of time.

Because the Communists and leftists have pretty much controlled the propaganda machines since Hitler went down, the Croats have gotten a worse rap than some of the others. Hard to justify. There’s plenty of blame to go around—not least against the invading Muslim hordes.


68 posted on 02/24/2010 9:48:53 AM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Ravnagora

Remember folks, “anti-communist” is not synonymous with “good guy.” See the Ustashe, Mujahadeen, JP Duvallier, etc.


78 posted on 02/24/2010 2:08:40 PM PST by Clemenza (Remember our Korean War Veterans)
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To: Ravnagora

The Catholic Church and the Holocaust, 1930-1965
Michael Phayer
Indiana University Press, 2001 Pius XII, says Phayer, was a weak leader and a cowardly one—and the author argues that, given the conditions under which he served, his lack of courage proved devastating. http://books.google.com/books?id=Ik_6WgPPxsoC&source=gbs_navlinks_s


109 posted on 01/12/2012 5:17:21 PM PST by anglian
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To: Ravnagora
The situation facing the Catholic Church throughout Nazi-occupied Europe was complex. Catholics were involved in acts both of rescue and of murder. In Poland, they were persecuted brutally -- almost 20 percent of Polish priests died at the hands of the Nazis. In other places, church leaders made an uneasy peace with Nazi authorities. In Croatia, Catholics, including priests, joined the perpetrators in the massacres of Orthodox Serbs.

A very important additional contribution of this book is its examination of the postwar era and how the church dealt with its history after the Holocaust, in Germany and elsewhere.

110 posted on 01/12/2012 5:20:30 PM PST by anglian
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To: Ravnagora

This thread and links certainly opened my eye to a lot of things. Here are a few more things I found. This concerning POSTWAR GERMANY and a certain person by the name of: Aloisius Joseph Muench -— MUENCH was the most powerful American Catholic and VATICAN REPRESENTATIVE in Allied-occupied Germany and subsequently in West Germany from 1946 to 1959 as the liaison between the U.S. Office of Military Government and the German Catholic Church in the American occupation zone (1946–1949), POPE PIUS XII’s apostolic visitor to Germany (1946–1947), the Vatican relief officer in Kronberg im Taunus, Germany (1947–1949), regent in Kronberg (1949–1951), as well as nuncio to Germany.[1]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloisius_Joseph_Muench?oldid=0 In a 1948 letter to Carl Zietlow, a Minnesotan Protestant pastor of the NCCJ, Muench described the organization as unneeded because: “regarding anti-Semitism” he had “found very little of it”.[19]

According to Phayer, for Muench as well as Pius XII, the “priority was not the survivors of the Holocaust, but the situation of the German Catholic refugees in Eastern Europe who had been driven from their homes at the end of the war. Incredibly, Bishop Muench actually felt that their lot was comparable to that of the Jews during the Holocaust”.[20]

Clemency for war crimes. Along with other German and American clerics, such as Johann Neuhausler, auxiliary bishop of Munich, Cardinal Josef Frings of Cologne, Muench was “in close contact with occupation authorities, other religious leaders, and the convicted war criminals themselves” regarding the campaign for clemency for Nazi war criminals.[21]
In February 1950, Pius XII instructed Muench to write a letter in support of clemency for convicted German war criminals to General Thomas Hardy, the head of the U.S. Army European Command. With his new appointment as papal regent, Muench was to speak as a direct representative of the pope. it was Muench’s discretion that “saved the Vatican from becoming publicly associated with former Nazis”.[26] Muench wrote: “I have not dared to advise the Holy See to intervene, especially if such intervention would eventually become public”.[27][28]

Muench often preferred to work behind the scenes; for example, a letter from one of Muench’s secretaries provided Father Franz Lovenstein the contact information he had requested “with the understanding, of course, that you are not to use his name in connection with any letters or briefs that will be sent to those gentlemen”.[29] For example, in the case of Hans Eisle (former SS, convicted of medical experimentation on prisoners) there is some evidence that Muench’s intervention with General Clay in the summer of 1948 resulted in the commutation of Eisle’s execution (scheduled for June 1948) and Eisle’s eventual release in 1952.


111 posted on 01/12/2012 6:08:02 PM PST by anglian
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