Posted on 02/14/2010 6:30:49 PM PST by tcg
Well, obviously, they are not practicing their Christianity, are they? When I looked up religions of Africa in Wikipedia, it says that “the majority of Africans practice African traditional religions, with traditions of folk religion or syncretism practised alongside an adherent’s Christianity or Islam.” Maybe, this contaminates the Christianity?????? I have no idea.
Just because you label someone a Christian, doesn’t mean they are one. Look at Pelosi: she calls herself a Catholic than adheres to practices that are in direct contradiction to the Church. She should be excommunicated and not allowed to lie in a public forum.
The Dutch surely treated the Blacks as equals and took them into their congregations? Were they Calvinists by chance???? That religion, with their predestination, must have had a great affect on morality and virtue. It seems like the Dutch are the least religious people in Europe.
Didn’t the British get rid of slavery over there? I am sure the blacks became integrated into their churches and became one big happy family. Oh wait. Wasn’t there something like apartheid?
Raping babies is sure part of Christian theology. Wonder how come Africa is the AIDS capital of the world? Oh, yes, they have to be following the tenants of Christianity. Why wouldn’t they practice abstinence like the Pope admonishes? That should solve a lot of problems in those nations. Then maybe their folk culture advocates polygamy and it overrides Christianity...or, well, they could be muslim.
How could Christianity work in a country of slaves or second class citizens? Was Wilberforce insane? It has only been in recent history that the racism in Africa has been tackled and it is proving to be working so well in Zimbabwe especially with such wise rulers as Mugabe.
I do not care to spend time studying Africa but I do think that all the AIDS, rape, mayhem, is due more to the system of corrupt governments which are not based on Natural Law as described by John Locke or the separation of power as defined by Montesquieu. Nietzsche’s “Will to Power” defines probably why, when not curtailed by a religion, there can be no order, no peace, and no utopia.
It was Christianity combined with this Republican government which led to such a great success for people.
It seems to me you are playing an intellectual shellgame here.
There is always a non-Christian residue in the best of Christians, just as their is a significant non-Christian element in Western Civilization (remember Homer? Plato? Euclid? Remember when you had to read _Beowulf_ in English class?). Remember sin?
If all we have to go on to identify "uncontaminated" Christianity is whether or not a person lives in a society with non-Christian elements, then we will all be found wanting, African and European, Thai and American.
Thus, I find your continued singling out of the South (and other) Africans for special criticism both unwarranted and seemingly arbitrary. The living presence of "undigested" or undiscarded non-Christian traditions in their societies no more disqualifies them as being authentic Christians as does the continued presence of non-Christian traditions in American society or Western Civilization.
Just because you label someone a Christian, doesn’t mean they are one.
You're making my point. Pelosi isn't a South African or a Thai. Similarly, just because you label a Civilization or a society Christian doesn't mean it is one.
And, on a personal note, I feel uncomfortable singling the people of Africa or any other country for criticism for moral depravity given that I live in a country that legally murders over 1 million babies a year via abortion, which produces and distributes more pornography than almost any other country, etc.
Look at Pelosi: she calls herself a Catholic than adheres to practices that are in direct contradiction to the Church. She should be excommunicated and not allowed to lie in a public forum.
Look at you or me. We call ourselves Christians, and yet we sin every day. In terms of excommunication and bearing false witness Pelosi's case is for the RC hierarchy and God to decide; but even in her case, is it proper to deny her God's grace, Christ's intercession and mercy? It seems to me that is what your doing... just as you seem to deny the people of Africa any semblance of charity.
Well, it seems that Africa has a morality problem so it has got to involve religion. Where else could it come from? By your statement (and I understand it,) you admit that all pagan cultures affect Christianity. Therefore, not all the teachings of Christianity would have the same, desired affect. How could it?
If Africa can not contain their sexual impulses, according to AIDS rates, crime statistics such as high levels of rape, baby rape, etc. then, obviously their “moral code” religion or whatever is not working.
True, statistics can be manipulated and maybe there are pockets where things are improving; one nation is cutting aids rates by abstinence programs encouraged by the Pope and fighting the demeaning condom distribution programs, but other than that country, I have heard dismal things. Maybe, they are lying about the statistics because of AIDS money.
You didn’t address my major point. Governments create the misery. I said Christianity in US combined with the Republican government is what gave us the most perfect, free, equality for different races, etc., like no other nation on earth. It is the best model we have to produce a productive nation with a people who have Free Will.
Pelosi is spreading gross propaganda about the beliefs of the Church and has the power of government to do it. That is a very dangerous situation and she should be excommunicated. It is not like me or you sinning. She affects the thinking of millions of people and controls the laws that creates the laws that are killing children. How could she not be excommunicated.
This is a vague statement. Everything is "involved" with everything else. This is a truism that proves nothing.
Your position appears to be that a society's ruling religion somehow causes -- or cures! -- moral depravity. Given that South Africa is predominantly Christian, you appear to be arguing that the Christian religion is somehow causing their immorality and its products: child rape, sexually-transmitted AIDS, etc. I'd argue this belief is obviously false.
Where else could it come from? By your statement (and I understand it,) you admit that all pagan cultures affect Christianity. Therefore, not all the teachings of Christianity would have the same, desired affect. How could it?
Uhm, may I suggest that moral depravity comes from man's sinful nature? Sin is something that precedes human traditions, which includes traditions like both false religions and the true religion -- Christianity, which is revealed by our Lord in history.
As for the almost extinct traditional religions of South Africa, please present a proof of how they are directly responsible for the sexual immorality and certain kinds of depravity. Can you do that? Please note that, once again, I'm talking about religion, not superstition.
If Africa can not contain their sexual impulses, according to AIDS rates, crime statistics such as high levels of rape, baby rape, etc. then, obviously their “moral code” religion or whatever is not working.
Once again, you seem to be claiming that Christianity -- the predominant religion in South Africa -- has failed to reign in that society's sexual immorality. If you really believe that, then shouldn't you also believe that the author's case that a Christian Revolution is needed to save Western Civilization from evils is a pipe dream? Why bother to support a religion that, in YOUR view, doesn't work to further material progress and keep society unified and vice-free?
You didn’t address my major point. Governments create the misery. I said Christianity in US combined with the Republican government is what gave us the most perfect, free, equality for different races, etc., like no other nation on earth.
I adressed your major point in my post #73:
Once again, what proof do you have that the sexual immorality in African nations is any worse than what we have in the US or elsewhere? May I suggest that their social chaos, such as it is, may have more to do with their relative poverty and poor leadership?
You keep avoiding my recurrent question: why do you continue to chastise the very Christian people of Africa when there is rich material for criticism to be found in your own back yard (i.e, the abort-aholics and porn-aholics of the very Christian USA)?
If you're RC, why don't you write your bishop and find out.
The archbishops are on to her and are rebuking her in public. I do not think they will continue to allow her to be another “Catholic” Ted Kennedy. Let’s hope the Church learned her lesson. If her political career does not end soon, I may write.
I’m not RC, but good luck with that. I’m no fan of that pro-abort witch.
Moral codes are determined in the formative years and I know many extremely good, moral Christians/Catholics. Those are the ones who practice their religion. I know less immoral Christians/Catholics. They are the ones who don't practice their religion.
Christian religions do differ-- the ones infused with VooDoo did not do very well, as evidenced by Haiti.
Christianity, especially the Protestant Ethic, was one of the contributing factors to the greatness, goodness, and economic powerhouse of this nation. But the structure of government allowed the freedom for them to practice their beliefs. Was everyone good? Perfect? No. But we can strive for perfection--the Truth--and as a society, we did better than any other groups as measured by goodness, charity, etc., than any other society on earth. That is a fact, I am not being boastful.
Alexis De Tocqueville commented on the goodness of this nation and the selflessness of the women, yet they had such strength of conviction (religious). I believe he commented on how religiously everyone read the Bible and filled the churches.
One of Tocqueville's jokes would be...You never talk to another Frenchman about your wife because they might know her better than you. France called herself Catholic then but the elites were all hedonists.
Governments either support the Christian moral codes by law or not. European laws threw out Christianity before the the 1900's when postmodern German philosophy became dominant (atheism).
The Enlightenment led to the demise of the power of the Church along with the Reformation and spawned Atheism and all the doctrines of separation of Church and State. (Separation is necessary for basic freedom of religion.) The Wiemar Republic was decadent, not Christian. Their state had created laws to demean and make obsolete any Christian thought. Sexual immorality became rampant. Because of the void, the state became god and Hitler became their leader. Likewise, Russia adopted Marxism and became a brutal atheistic country as did China. Death and brutality and immorality were worse than any Christian nations but probably not as evil as Aztec/Mayans.
So, are the majority of people in Africa really practicing Christians? Or are they CINO as a Pelosi and Kennedy? since they have the notoriety for being the capital of AIDS, rape, etc. Or are the statistics wrong? Why are there so many refugees from that nation and no one is clamoring to live there as they are the US and places in Europe?
My argument is, that if they were truly practicing Christians, they could have nothing but a moral society, (think Amish) if the government allowed freedom to practice the religion. Obviously, Africans are not training their children in Christian doctrine. Can countries be moral without a belief in everlasting life? Atheistic, pagan countries have been a dismal failures though out history.
You seem to really hate Christianity when the New Testament is the greatest blueprint for happiness and a moral society that has ever existed.
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