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Do Cosmic Ray Changes Regulate Ice Ages? Global Warming Puzzler
NCTimes.com ^ | February 6th, 2010 | Bradley Fikes

Posted on 02/07/2010 10:11:07 AM PST by neverdem

According to a new paper by Gerald E. Marsh (PDF), they do. If true, this has great implications for the debate over whether humans are causing global warming, or whether it is a natural phenomenon. More about Marsh here.

Marsh says that changes in carbon dioxide levels simply can’t account for the differences in temperatures between interglacials, while changes in cloud cover caused by a change in galactic cosmic ray flux can.

Changes in cosmic rays

Changes in cosmic rays

The conventional global warming explanation for the Ice Ages and interglacial periods (we are in one right now), is that a change in the Earth’s orbit called a Milankovitch cycle adds heat, that causes carbon dioxide to be released, causing more warming.

Carbon dioxide itself can’t start the process, because during Ice Age cycles the warming trend precedes CO2 increases by an average of 800 years. Supposedly, the Milankovitch cycle is strong enough to start the warming process, but too weak to continue it without the help of carbon dioxide.

But global warming skeptics point to the lag as an indication that carbon dioxide is just along for the ride, as it were, an indicator of increasing warmth, not a major cause of it.

And Marsh’s paper says the cause and effect is wrong as well:
“This Milankovitch insolation theory has a number of problems associated with it, and the one to be discussed here is the so called “causality problem”; i.e., what came first—increased insolation or the shift to an interglacial. This would seem to be the most serious objection, since if the warming of the Earth preceded the increased insolation it could not be caused by it. This is not to say that Milankovitch variations in solar insolation do...

(Excerpt) Read more at nctimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Testing
KEYWORDS: agw; amazongate; carbontrade; catastrophism; climatechange; climatechangedata; co2; glaciergate; globalwarming; globalwarmingscandal; globqalwarminghoax; iceages; interglacials; ipcc; maunderminimum; milankovitch; milankovitchcycles; pachauri; pachaurigate
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http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1002/1002.0597.pdf FReebie which I haven't read yet.

Interglacials, Milankovitch Cycles, and Carbon Dioxide abstract

New paper: Interglacials, Milankovitch Cycles and Carbon Dioxide What I first stumbled into, thinking it was the abstract.

1 posted on 02/07/2010 10:11:09 AM PST by neverdem
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To: neverdem; meyer; Horusra; Para-Ord.45; rdl6989; mmanager; FreedomPoster; carolinablonde; ...
 




Beam me to Planet Gore !

2 posted on 02/07/2010 10:11:43 AM PST by steelyourfaith (FReepers were opposed to Obama even before it was cool to be against Obama.)
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To: steelyourfaith

1:11:43 PM LOL! How did you do that?


3 posted on 02/07/2010 10:15:01 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

Just lucky to be in the right place at the right time. :)


4 posted on 02/07/2010 10:17:23 AM PST by steelyourfaith (FReepers were opposed to Obama even before it was cool to be against Obama.)
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To: neverdem

Simply looking at the geologic record we see that the northern hemisphere was covered three times with massive glaciers.. Obviously these glaciers are not present today so there must have been both massive global cooling to cause these ice ages and massive global warming to melt these glaciers. Carbon dioxide levels especially from human activity cannot explain these massive global climate changes so there must obviously be some other mechanism. The global warming hoaxers seem to have no explanation for what has happened in the past.


5 posted on 02/07/2010 10:22:31 AM PST by The Great RJ ("The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." M. Thatcher)
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To: neverdem

The Sun did it!


6 posted on 02/07/2010 10:23:30 AM PST by MNJohnnie ("The trouble with socialism is that eventually you run out of other peoples' money" Lady Thatcher)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Understanding past and future climate

Disclosing the Real Risks on Climate Change

Professor of Contempt - The legacy of Howard Zinn.

Fracking the Academic Left

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

7 posted on 02/07/2010 10:28:16 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: The Great RJ

They ignore the past. They pretend the world began in the last 100 years or something. Their is no real science supporting manmade global warming as far as I know.


8 posted on 02/07/2010 10:44:01 AM PST by GeronL (http://tyrannysentinel.blogspot.com)
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To: GeronL
Their is no real science supporting manmade global warming as far as I know.

IIRC, some of the same moonbats wanted to blame the impending global cooling of the 1970s on increasing CO2.

9 posted on 02/07/2010 11:10:58 AM PST by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem
"The CLOUD (Cosmics Leaving OUtdoor Droplets) laboratory experiment, CERN believes, will show the mechanisms through which the sun and cosmic rays can influence the formation of clouds and thus the climate."

Clouded Research
10 posted on 02/07/2010 11:15:04 AM PST by algernonpj (He who pays the piper . . .)
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To: neverdem

This is more plausible than the strongest evidence for it being man-made.


11 posted on 02/07/2010 11:28:28 AM PST by my small voice (A biased media and an uneducated public is the biggest threat to our democracy)
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To: neverdem

Henrik Svensmark’s book, “The Chilling Stars: A Cosmic View of Climate Change”, makes the same contention. He’s been studying this for years, and was hoping to do experiments in cloud formation at CERN. I guess when they get it fixed, he’ll be able to do it. His book is a good read, and not too difficult to understand, even if you’re not a science-type person!


12 posted on 02/07/2010 11:30:21 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


13 posted on 02/07/2010 11:30:43 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: SirKit

Cosmic Ray ping!


14 posted on 02/07/2010 11:31:13 AM PST by SuziQ
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To: MrB; Nervous Tick; SunkenCiv; blam; muawiyah

Ige Age *ping*


15 posted on 02/07/2010 11:31:52 AM PST by hennie pennie
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To: hennie pennie
I contend that Palin is the one candidate uniquely qualified to deal with the coming Ice Age :)
16 posted on 02/07/2010 12:00:35 PM PST by TexasFreeper2009 (November is coming.)
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To: neverdem
Do Cosmic Ray Changes Regulate Ice Ages? Global Warming Puzzler

That depends. Let's spend a few months looking for ways to blame cosmic ray levels on the West and on America in particular. If we can find an explanation that requires greater government intervention in our lives, no matter how poorly supported, then the answer is "yes". Otherwise, this is a "no".

17 posted on 02/07/2010 12:43:13 PM PST by Pollster1 (Natural born citizen of the USA, with the birth certificate to prove it)
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To: neverdem

18 posted on 02/07/2010 12:57:17 PM PST by UCANSEE2
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To: MNJohnnie

yes, “the sun did it” — and we see now that the AGW gang was merely trying to “protect” the sun from blame for all these “climate changes”.......

b/c once we all start to blame the sun, my oh my, we just won’t have much respect anymore for the physical source of our light, warmth, and lives

so they had to scapegoat CO2 instead

it was for the good of all of humanity

</sarcasm>


19 posted on 02/07/2010 1:10:43 PM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: are you really concerned about "foreign" campaign donations? Let's see all of yours!!)
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To: neverdem
started a thread on CERN's CLOUD experiments which are expected to start getting some initial results during 2010:

CERN Update on CLOUD cosmic ray experiments

of course it may be quite a long while before anything is known to the public, for either scientific or "political" reasons...... but this seems incredibly important, either to rule out or rule in possible effects of cosmic rays upon cloud formation and the earth's climate
20 posted on 02/07/2010 2:00:49 PM PST by Enchante (Obamanation: are you really concerned about "foreign" campaign donations? Let's see all of yours!!)
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