British troops get U.S. rifles to tackle the Taliban.

Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 16th January 2010 | Mail On Sunday Reporter

[DmBarch]

We did the same thing for sniper use. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M110_Semi-Automatic_Sniper_System

The Army’s Squad Designated Marksman program is training soldiers to take care of the 300-600 targets by themselves with the .223.

[lapsus calami]

 

 

Ah, okay - a relic from WW2, an 03A3, reborn to be better looking, more personable. The odd notches on the end of the barrel are where the front sight block used to be. Polished and reblued, new bolt handle, receiver drilled and tapped for scope mounts, low profile safety, Timney trigger, glass bedded sporter stock - the whole works.

 

 

[Frantzie]

Looks pretty sweet. Like the dinner mat too. :-)

[lapsus calami]

 

Thanks!

 

I like to serve'em up with a touch of style.

 

Pardon me, do you have any Grey Poupon?

 

 

[NTHockey]

“I wish to goodness we HAD an M-14, all we have is an M-1.”

I was in the Marines when they transitioned from the M-1 to the M-14 and I hated the M-14. We qualified at 200, 300 and 500 yds. The M-14 was nowhere near as accurate as the M-1. I know the arguments - “M-1 is too heavy”, “lighter weight means you can carry more ammo”, etc. I’d still stake my life on the M-1.

For shorter ranges, a “spray and pray” 5.56 mm rifle is probably OK. But that’s what a M1911 is for.

[Manly Warrior]

The Enfield bullpup SA80 carbine used by the brits DOES NOT use standard 556 NATO ammo, rather, they are issued “Radway Green”, an M855 bullet loaded in a 556x45 case to rather mild pressures and resultant lower velocites.

The carbine thusly loaded is even worse off than an M4 with standard M855 ammo.

M855 NATO tends to yaw (turn sideways)shortly after impact, and then fragment at 90 degrees at impact velocities of about about 2400 fps, with about 13 inches of total pentration (to about 200m downrange from an M4, 275-300m from the full sized M16A2).

The 762x51 rifle mentioned in this article is the US M110, an AR type direct impingment system rifle that is issued in limited numbers to US troops to allow extended range capability (not true sniper capabiliites) to the infantry squad. Especially since the issued ammo is M80 ball-which is less effective in some ways than M855 556 ball. It would be much more effective if M852 match or M118 LR (sama same) was the ammo used; 175 grain OTM at 2650fps compared to 147 FMJ at 2800fps.

Imagine, being issued WATERED DOWN 556 ammo.... Who’d a thunk it possible.

[12Gauge687]

Here are some friends in Afghanistan with their rifles (See attached); they would probably appreciate the new version of the M14 (I used to have the civilian version, the Springfield M1A, and it was VERY robust - took a beating and kept on ticking).

[mad_as_he$$]

I started carrying 600 rounds after the first patrol and left the food behind. There was always food lying around when I wanted some but ammo got very precious at times.

[centurion316]

To be more accurate, basic load for every man:

406 rounds (3 bandoliers @ 3x7x18 + 1 30 rd mag (28 rds))
100 rounds 7.62 belted for M60
4 frags
2 smoke
1 claymore
1 PRC-77 battery
1 lb C4

Water
Chow
etool

plus LAWs, flak jacket (1 per squad), radios, KY-38’s, 40mm, etc

pretty big load for the mountains

[jpsb]

Paradyn change in infantry tactics during Vietnam War, Fire power vrs marksmanship. Fire power keeps the bad guys heads down so you can flank (ground or air) and kill them. The tactics worked well in Vietnam with a not professional infantry.

In Aftganistand it appears we need to return to the older infantry tactic of hitting what you shoot at. Which makes my old M14 a very good weapon to use. Does not put out the fire power the M16 does but it is very accurate at 500-600 yards maybe even 900 yards.

[centurion316]

I take your point, and its a good one. The vast majority of engagements still occur at ranges of about 150-300 meters, so current 5.56mm rifles are more than adequate for that role. Designated marksmen and snipers need a different weapon, the 7.62 accurized and with match grade ammunition fills that role.

I believe that most infantrymen serving in Afghanistan would say that weight is their biggest problem. They have even more kit to carry than we did in Vietnam.

[jpsb]

"current 5.56mm rifles are more than adequate for that role"

Agreed, Aftganistand might be different from most battle spaces. I seem recall reading about Aftgans sitting high in mountain passes and sniping British back in the day of the empire. Apparently they are doing the same again today.

[mad_as_he$$]

Yup. All the other stuff to. We had one or two poor suckers that wound up carrying satchel charges also. My uncle said that in WW2 they carried about a similar load based upon the weapons then. Everyone in his squad carried three BAR mags. He said when the BAR guy opened up the Germans changed their attitude in the fight. Don't miss VN era flak jackets either what a useless thing unless you sat on it in the chopper. Guys tell me now that the radios are much easier on batteries and they don't have to lug a bag full on every mission or they are hummer mounted with WT’s for short range.

[Who is John Galt?]

For a little historical perspective:

THE .256" BRITISH: A LOST OPPORTUNITY
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/256brit.htm

Look's like it would have been in the 6.5 Grendel / 6.8 SPC class of cartridges...

;>)

[Who is John Galt?]

Regarding the "dinner mat" - if you had an FAL with steel handguards, you could use a matching "chicken mitt."

(Old FAL joke... ;>)

[AnAmericanMother]

My dad's a big believer in the M-1.

He was in WWII in the Engineers, so all he had was the little M-1 Carbine. They were taking a small town in Italy, somehow the Engineers wound up in the middle of it, and he ran around a corner and literally bumped helmets with a German soldier. Fritz froze in horror and then took off running - Dad went to hit the safety, hit the magazine release, and dropped all his bullets in the street. Fortunately Fritz was still beating feet and never heard that little pitter-patter of brass on the cobblestones.

Dad threw away the M-1 Carbine, picked up a Garand from a dead GI, and carried it for the rest of the war. He loved that rifle.

We got ours from the Civilian Marksmanship Program. It was still in the Cosmoline when we got it, but it's all cleaned up and working fine. We keep no cats that catch no mice.

[sockmonkey]

Heh, I have a 7.62 X 54 Finnish Mosin (bolt action) with an 1894 Russian receiver, with sights that go beyond 1200 meters.

I love mosin nagants..I don't put surplus through them, and I must say Sellier & Bellot isn't cheap.