Posted on 12/30/2009 8:46:19 PM PST by My Favorite Headache
Yeah he was bragging there about that AP piece...what in the hell that has to do with his “struggle” is beyond me. A refresher on how “we are too big to fail?”
I knew this guy was a a faker and jackass when I saw numerous photos of him in a Hawaiian aloha shirt
The church itself obviously has a multi-million dollar income, I don’t see how one Sunday of short donations can put them in the red - if it does it’s just irresponsible on their part. If donations are down (which I’m fully inclined to believe) and it’s putting a squeeze on their finances then it’s the type of problem that shows itself over weeks and months.
If they had plenty of time to see this coming, why wait till the last minute and then demand your members fork over a million dollars by the next day? That’s what’s screwy.
John "Mark" went w/Paul & Barnabas on First Missionary Journey but went home after experiencing hardships & upon his return to join up, Paul refused to take him accounting for the split between Paul and Barnabas, the latter taking John "Mark" and continuing on but never mentioned again in NT.
Finally, as Paul (Saul) was a member of the Sanhedrin and Pharisee, he loathed Jesus and His followers so much that he had them arrested, bodily removed to be tried, jailed or even extreme cases killed for being believers.
Well he’s got the gay lobby he could ask too. Didn’t he just start spouting against the anti-homosexuality bill in Uganda
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2408071/posts
I dunno that Paul was a ‘ruler’ was he?
The seeker churches ARE also social gospel only, for the most part.
btw I love the strategic placement of the image at the beginning of the letter. lol
To quote Rick Warren
“If your church has been plateaued for six months, it might take six months to get it going again. If it’s been plateaued a year, it might take a year. If it’s been plateaued for 20 years, you’ve got to set in for the duration! I’m saying some people are going to have to die or leave.
Moses had to wander around the desert for 40 years while God killed off a million people before he let them go into the Promised Land. That may be brutally blunt, but it’s true. There may be people in your church who love God sincerely, but who will never, ever change.”
So how can we apply this principle to saddleback church as a whole? Maybe they just have to wither away, or maybe people like Rick should just leave and let a real pastor take over, (not likely even if he did leave) since they aren’t open to correction by the brethren.
The seeker churches ARE also social gospel only, for the most part.
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Depends on which church really, and what their tradition is. I know of some churches that are seeker churches that are very Evangelical and really want people to be saved (i.e. that is still their primary focus). That isn’t to say some churches haven’t reversed the positions of what’s most important. On its face, it’s not a bad thing to be seeker friendly, is it? It simply means you’re recognizing people in their various needs and looking to meet them there.
The Apostle Paul said in Phil 1: 15-18, “15It is true that some preach Christ out of envy and rivalry, but others out of goodwill. 16The latter do so in love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel. 17The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely...But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.”
That is not to say that those churches that are not stressing Biblical salvation, don’t need to change, because I think they do.
Maybe they just have to wither away, or maybe people like Rick should just leave and let a real pastor take over, (not likely even if he did leave) since they aren’t open to correction by the brethren.
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Do you know this, for a fact?
No, I don’t anything about the present church. I’ve been away from Mission Viejo for twenty years, now.
Me too ;)
The church itself obviously has a multi-million dollar income, I don’t see how one Sunday of short donations can put them in the red - if it does it’s just irresponsible on their part. If donations are down (which I’m fully inclined to believe) and it’s putting a squeeze on their finances then it’s the type of problem that shows itself over weeks and months.
If they had plenty of time to see this coming, why wait till the last minute and then demand your members fork over a million dollars by the next day? That’s what’s screwy.
eclecticEel ...
VERY precise observation on your part. Nailed it. Was just what I was thinking. Someone somewhere is either cookin’ the books, or is siphoning off the donations to “fund” their personal interests.
Gambling debt.
The RW story reminds me of the Oral Roberts incident about 20 years ago. Something to the gist of "If you don't send $8 million, God's going to kill me."
“But church giving to other Christians is as old as biblical days. It’s hard to imagine how this gets organized if the pastor stays out of it.”
Of course giving is part of being a Christian. It says in the Bible to give. However, I take exception when a pastor overtly asks for funds. Not only that, he has a particular number he wants to hit.
I attend a rather large church not that far away from Rick Warren’s church and they don’t talk about the offering other than to announce they are collecting it. There is absolutely no pressure to give. However, as a Christian, you do because you want to. When my church does talk about money, it is when the church is offering funds to help the church families in need (like this past Christmas).
Bottom line for Rick, he should teach the Word and the funds will follow.
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