Posted on 12/11/2009 5:57:16 PM PST by Jim Robinson
Yes I did!
You wrote:
“A lot has happened since Pius XII.”
You can post EXACTLY NOTHING from any Church source that Catholics are actually supposed to rely on for an understanding of the faith.
You cite for instance, “address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Pope John Paul II updated the Church’s position to accept evolution of the human body:”
JPII didn’t do anything of the kind. He expressed his personal opinion. No pope in a statement to a pontifical academy can “update” the Church’s position. That’s not how it works. Sorry, the Church doesn’t work that way. Trust me, I’ve looked into this in detail. There is NOTHING of any import since the 1950s.
you cite:
“Cardinal Ratzinger, In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of Creation and the Fall [Eerdmans, 1986, 1995],”
Completely irrelevant. He wasn’t pope then. It doesn’t matter what he said or did. It was all just private opinion. When he comes out with a papal statement on evolution (and he might) let me know.
“In a book released in 2008, his comments prior to becoming Pope were recorded as:”
Exactly, prior to his becoming pope. So, it’s completely useless in this discussion.
I do not mean to sound brusque. It’s just that - for some reason - Catholics who support theistic evolution act as if they have forgotten basic Catholic doctrine. Documents from a pope before he was pope count for exactly nothing. I would have thought every literate Catholic would have known that since the recantation of heresy by anti-pope John XXIII in the 15th century!
There has been exactly NO development of doctrine in any “major league” Catholic document since the 1950s regarding evolution. None. Zero.
“FR is not “fringe”.”
This is true as evidenced by the Tea Parties with signs like “Stop Ignoring Us” and even “Buyer’s Remorse.” Many of the people who voted stupidly just didn’t know what Obama and other libDems stood for (sadly).
How about The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994, revised 1997) on faith, evolution and science which states: 159. Faith and science: "...methodical research in all branches of knowledge, provided it is carried out in a truly scientific manner and does not override moral laws, can never conflict with the faith, because the things of the world and the things of faith derive from the same God. The humble and persevering investigator of the secrets of nature is being led, as it were, by the hand of God in spite of himself, for it is God, the conserver of all things, who made them what they are." (Vatican II GS 36:1) 283. The question about the origins of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for all his works and for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers.... 284. The great interest accorded to these studies is strongly stimulated by a question of another order, which goes beyond the proper domain of the natural sciences. It is not only a question of knowing when and how the universe arose physically, or when man appeared, but rather of discovering the meaning of such an origin....
Paragraph 283 has been noted as making a positive comment regarding the theory of evolution, with the clarification that "many scientific studies" which have enriched knowledge of "the development of life-forms and the appearance of man" refers to mainstream science and not to "creation science".
Thank you for posting the truth.
WOW. What a bunch of utter nonsense.
You spoke too soon. See post #1825. BTW - What is your background or education in Catholic dogma that enabled you to form such an opinion?
I still have not seen any threads started to trash Creationists. I was not involved in anything about "Darwin Central", I don't even know what that is about really, but I have posted my opinion that "Evo's" should distance themselves from Athiests, again, not the same thing necessarily.
Who do you believe when it comes to creation - what ‘man’ thinks or what The Creator says. What part of ‘lean not unto your own understanding’ don’t you get and therefore are disobedient to?
Get real first. Obedience is better than sacrifice. You are totally missing the ‘core’ of Christianity - OBEDIENCE and Faith. If you don’t have that, you have NOTHING!
You can’t get God’s first book under your belt and you want to know what education I have? God spoke......but Natural Law doesn’t want to listen. He, his own god, has a different way.
Then there is always this verse (that ALWAYS got me in trouble in Religion class at Catholic School):
Matthew 1:24-25:
24 When Joseph woke up, he did as the angel of the Lord commanded and took Mary as his wife. 25 But he did not have sexual relations with her until her son was born. And Joseph named him Jesus.
LOL
Have a good day!:)
I don’t see what the big deal about Mary being a virgin all her life is about.
After Jesus’ birth, Mary and Joseph had other children. Not to hard a concept to follow, they were married and God chose Joseph for her. As God chose Mary before marriage when she was a virgin to conceive Our Savior.
And, thankfully, she was obedient! Obedience, as she has demonstrated, has a major impact on God’s will being manifested. Wonder how many learned from Mary’s example of obedience to God’s Word.
LOL! You too!
You fail or are unable to recognize the role of the Holy Spirit. Those who worship in denominations without Apostolic Succession often see Church leaders as "men" and not instruments of the Holy Spirit.
According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (PART ONE - THE PROFESSION OF FAITH, SECTION TWO - THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH, CHAPTER THREE, ARTICLE 8): "The mission of Christ and the Holy Spirit is brought to completion in the Church, which is the Body of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Spirit. [...] Through the Church's sacraments, Christ communicates his Holy and sanctifying Spirit to the members of his Body."
Thanks for the ping, Kim!
I’m late to the “party” (as usual) but I couldn’t agree with you more! You took the words right out of my mouth in your 1212 post!
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you.
Luke 1:28 "And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with you."
The Greek kecharitomene means favored by grace, graced. Its tense suggests a permanent state of being "highly favored," thus full of grace. Charity, the divine love within us, comes from the same root. God is infinite Goodness, infinite Love. Mary is perfect created goodness, filled to the limit of her finite being with grace or charity.
Blessed art thou among women
Luke 1:41-42a "When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit, cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women..."
Luke 1:48 "For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will all ages call me blessed."
Among all women is a way to say the highest/greatest etc. of a group in Semitic languages (these words would likely have been spoken in Aramaic). Mary is being called the greatest of all women, greater than Ruth, greater than Sarah, greater than EVE! Since Eve was created immaculate (without original sin), Mary must have been conceived immaculate. And, although Eve fell into sin by her own free will, Mary must have corresponded to God's grace and remained sinless. She could not otherwise be greater than Eve. Thus, as the Fathers of the Church unanimously assert, Mary is the New Eve who restores womanhood to God's original intention and cooperates with the New Adam, her Son, for the Redemption of the world.
Blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus
Luke 1:42b "and blessed is the fruit of your womb."
Jesus is Mary's fruit. Good fruit does not come from anything but a good tree (Mt. 7:17-18)! The all-holy Son of God could not be the fruit of any other tree than the Immaculate Virgin.
Holy Mary, Mother of God
Luke 1:43 "And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
Kyrios is the Greek word used by the Jews in the Septuagint Bible (Greek translation) for Yhwh, the Divine Name of God. In her greeting of Mary, Elizabeth is saying: "How is it that the mother of my God should come to me." Against the heresies of the 4th and 5th centuries which tried to split the Person of Jesus into two, divine and human, denying one or the other, the Council of Ephesus in 431 AD proclaimed Mary Theotokos (God-bearer, i.e. mother of God). Jesus is a single Person, a Divine Person, the 2nd Person of the Most Holy Trinity. To be mother of the Person Jesus is to be mother of a Person who is God. Mary's title protects this truth against errors which emphasize or deny, either the divinity or humanity of the Lord.
Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
Luke 2:35 "...and you yourself a sword will pierce so that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed."
John 2:5 "His mother said to the servers, "Do whatever he tells you."
Mary sees a need and appeals to Her Son to satisfy it. He does. We turn to Mary to ask her to intercede with her Son in our daily spiritual and material needs, but especially at the hour of our death. At that moment our salvation hangs in the balance as the devil makes his final foray to deter us from the path to God (Rev. 2:10). It is not surprising, therefore, that both the Hail Mary and the Our Father conclude with an appeal to be delivered from the evil one.
That's probably good advice, but it isn't possible.
When one circles the wagons to exclude all those of benighted opinion, the "evos" and atheists aren't in the same "inner circle"; they're in the same outer circle.
yep
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