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To: Windflier

There’s got to be more to the problem of black failure than mere liberalism, however. Look at Africa: before colonialism, it was a place of tribalism, warfare, and poverty. Then the Euros came. During colonial times, order was imposed at gunpoint, schools were established, and prosperity increased for the majority of Africans. Yes, there were plenty of abuses during the colonial years (e.g. Leopold of the Belgians, one of history’s greatest bastards) but all in all the Europeans improved the lives of most black people in Africa during their period of domination. But the white man left. Within a few years, Africa was back to tribalism, warfare, and poverty. Why?

It can’t be that the African nations were unprepared for self-rule. The Euros dumped all their colonies, yet those outside of Africa went on to become reasonably successful. Singapore, for example, seemed to bounce back fairly quickly from its captivity within the British Empire. Belize is a reasonably civilized nation today as well sans British support. Indonesia has made a go of things without the Dutch. The Filipinos have their problems, yes, but all in all they’ve done all right since the Spanish and Americans left. The former French colonies in the South Pacific seem to have done okay. Vietnam is still recovering from being a battleground of World War III, but the future looks bright. Lebanon is a downright nice place as long as the neighbors aren’t interfering. And India had it tough for a couple of decades after the Raj packed it in, but they’re launching moon rockets today. But I can guarantee you that Nigeria or Togo will never launch a moon rocket. Why?

The fact is that no black society on earth has ever been a success. There were prosperous tribes and even kingdoms in Africa prior to the coming of the Europeans, but these were still hunter-gatherer tribes, not civilizations in the European or Asian sense. The pre-colonial tribes of Africa were more or less integrated into their various environments, yes, but despite the continent’s unbelievable bounty of water, fertile land and other natural resources, no real material or social progress was ever made by any social group in sub-Saharan Africa until outsiders came. Why?

I don’t know why. But I do know that whatever the reasons may be, native and diaspora Africans are simply not succeeding in the modern world. Yes, we all know black people who have done well, and we hope that many more will follow their examples; but until we identify and address the root causes of black failure, whatever they may be, we are all in for more suffering and heartbreak.

I hope I haven’t offended you, but facts are facts. Care to offer any ideas in response?


429 posted on 12/11/2009 12:24:29 PM PST by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan

“The fact is that no black society on earth has ever been a success. There were prosperous tribes and even kingdoms in Africa prior to the coming of the Europeans, but these were still hunter-gatherer tribes, not civilizations in the European or Asian sense. The pre-colonial tribes of Africa were more or less integrated into their various environments, yes, but despite the continent’s unbelievable bounty of water, fertile land and other natural resources, no real material or social progress was ever made by any social group in sub-Saharan Africa until outsiders came. Why?”

In the history of many hundreds of years, there have been Asian and European civilizations of size, achievement and note. But in Africa? And in Africa today? Various versions of corrupt and despotic regimes. Even worse than the current corrupt and despostic Obama regime.

The way 95 pct of blacks vote Democratic Party, one would think the blacks prefer the paternalistic, socialistic life of a plantation slave than freedom, which is what the Dem Party, if given full power, would impose on us all. (and at least half the whites vote as if they wish they were kept slaves or at least serfs on a plantation.


448 posted on 12/11/2009 2:16:32 PM PST by OldArmy52 (The German High Command sent Lenin to destabilize Russia. Who sent Obama?)
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To: B-Chan
There’s got to be more to the problem of black failure than mere liberalism... The fact is that no black society on earth has ever been a success.

Why?

I don’t know why. But I do know that whatever the reasons may be, native and diaspora Africans are simply not succeeding in the modern world.

Yes, we all know black people who have done well, and we hope that many more will follow their examples; but until we identify and address the root causes of black failure, whatever they may be, we are all in for more suffering and heartbreak.

I can't argue with any of your statements, and like you, I believe that until we can address the root causes of the chronic failure of black communities, we will suffer the consequences.

That being said, there are ways out for any black person who truly desires to slip the bonds of failure and misery. We all know what those are, so I won't re-state them.

Examples abound of individual black people who've escaped the legacy of degradation and hopelessness that is the lot of most blacks.

It can be done, but it takes personal initiative, and unyielding perseverance. It also takes a re-ordering of one's cultural perspective, which is perhaps one of the hardest steps to accomplish.

452 posted on 12/11/2009 4:13:23 PM PST by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: B-Chan

“There’s got to be more to the problem of black failure than mere liberalism, however. Look at Africa: before colonialism, it was a place of tribalism, warfare, and poverty.”

My son, who is a historian would disagree with you. There were some mighty kingdoms in the past (medieval era) that were black. All nations were warlike pretty much and all had periods of great poverty.

Today we can look to nations like Ghana and see that once they throw off the yoke of socialism or dictatorship black nations can prosper. But, it is not fair to compare black African with America’s black populace. We have really messed up our black population with democrat bigotry that extends back to slavery and continues today with dependency, lack of whole family unit, education that is a joke, etc. I have noticed that white people or any ethnic group that lives in similar conditions have similar traits. Some of the greatest minds and most noble people in world history were black.


455 posted on 12/11/2009 6:11:18 PM PST by Wpin (I do not regret my admiration for W)
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