I am not the one citing this account (Joseph Smith History 1:18-20), you started that (as far as I am aware) on this thread, nor am I the one now changing the subject by referring to other accounts. I was just using actual quotation of the account you cited to point out that mormons do not understand this account--their "scripture" here--the way you say they do. The "professors" here who are "corrupt" are not generic christian believers, they are those that "teach . . . doctrine" as the quoted text goes, or, as mormons understand it, persons who claim to speak for God but without authority. Mormons do not understand this scripture to say that all Christian believers are (or were) corrupt. You don't need a specific special meaning of "professors" to understand this--just look at it in context--"professors" in this case teach doctrine--they are not the same as all Christian believers.
In your additional quotation from Joseph Smith using "professors of Christianity," it would seem the horse story is just a convenient object lesson, and the term "professors of Christianity" could be intended either way--to refer to teachers or leaders only, or to believers as a whole. Assuming for purposes of discussion that the term is used for believers as a whole, the quotation is still consistent with how mormons understand the state of the churches and of people generally in the time after the apostles and before Joseph Smith. According to your quotation, Smith said: What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world. According to the Book of Mormon, as I quoted before, as of the time immediately before Joseph Smith: . . . [the former people of God] have all gone astray save it be a few, who are the humble followers of Christ; nevertheless, they are led, that in many instances they do err because they are taught by the precepts of men. (2 Nephi 28:14) So according to Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, almost all had gone astray, that is, "professors of Christianity" (believers, for the sake of this discussion) "generally" had gone astray, "except for a few, who are the humble followers of Christ."
As I said, I am just pointing out that mormons do not believe that members of various Christian denominations, past or present, are themselves corrupt or abominable, as you claimed. As a counter example, mormons even believe that there were before and at the time of Smith (and presumably now also) at least some "humble followers of Christ" who are not "mormons". That was all I was saying, and now I've said it again.
Again, what's Smith broader view of Christian people? When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119). You see this as "Smith's broader view of Christian people." Mormons would see it as Smith's view of the authority of Christian leaders after the time of the apostles to receive revelation, teach doctrine and perform ordinances such as baptism.
Your real argument seems to be (1) mormons believe what I say they do (or they ought to and they would if they would just read the sources I use and give them the proper interpretation and weight, as I do); (2) what I way they believe is ridiculous and intolerant on its face; (3) so everyone here should call them on it.
I am just disagreeing with number (1) here. Others can agree or disagree as they will.
I am not the one citing this account (Joseph Smith History 1:18-20), you started that (as far as I am aware) on this thread, nor am I the one now changing the subject by referring to other accounts.
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I'm a huge Beck fan, in fact I'm listening right now here http://www.ksfa860.com/common/gap_streamer.php but something really confuses me. It takes the ability to use real critical thinking to know what Beck (and most of us know about the state of the country and where we are heading). That is, we have the ability to discover the truth no matter how much the media or conventional wisdom try to hide it. Yet on Mormonism, Beck is cleary wrong. Any Christian knows that the book or momonism is severely flawed and that Joseph Smith was no prophet. How can Beck cut through all the chaff of what is going on in our world and come to the truth and yet believe the writings of Joseph Smith? It doesn't make sense? I'm not saying he's up to something secret, not by any means, it's just that he's so right about so many things and completely wrong on the most important thing. Now, he just said on the air that he believes Jesus is the Savior of the world and that he is Mormon. I also think that because he is Mormon he is not attacked near as much if he was a Evangelical Bible only believer. Anyway, am I nutz or does Beck being a Mormon seem bizarre? |