How Can Glenn Beck Be Right on So Much and Yet Still Believe the book of Mormon? (serious question)

[Elsie]

Interesting...that you equate you/yourself to moron. [I know, you misspelled moron, I corrected it for you. ;^)]

I thought you said, "Goodbye"?

[Elsie]

When you espouse your-way-or-the-highway dogma ...

Matthew 7:13-15
13. "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
14. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
15. "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.

[Elsie]

And he didn't even mention Joseph Smith!

Brigham Young did:

"Without Joseph Smith's approval, NONE will enter..."

[Elsie]

This thread is not one of FR finest hours..

We've heard that a lot so far...

[Elsie]

This thread is not one of FR finest hours..

Maybe if enough people complain to the MOD's or even JimRob, perhaps the whole THING will get pulled.

(Can't have CONSERVATIVES being seen in a bad light; can we?)

[Elsie]

Elsie...May I borrow this one ???

Sure; RestornuDudette

[Tennessee Nana]

Oh, how sweet...

:)

[Joachim]

No one's going to catch you in this deception unless they have a copy of the Book of Mormon and note that Lds say that 2 Nephi 28:14 was supposedly written between 559 and 545 B.C.!!! -- or almost 600 years before Christ even was born!!!

It's no deception. Read it in context, especially together with the preceding chapter 27, and see.

If you read in context, you will see that, as you said, mormons do believe that 2 Nephi 28 was written many years before Christ, but you will also see that mormons believe in prophets and prophecies. As you can also see, 2 Nephi chapter 28 is believed by mormons to include a prophecy (of the prophet Nephi) about conditions before and at the time of Joseph Smith. Thus mormons who believe the Book of Mormon also believe that there existed "humble followers of Christ" after the apostles and before Joseph Smith.

Mormons do believe in a "complete apostasy" as you point out, and in the restoration of "the Church of Jesus Christ (of Latter-Day Saints)" as they call it, which they believe is the only current "true and living" church, that is, the only current one authorized by God. Thus although according to mormons there were "humble followers of Christ" before Smith, mormons do not believe in the churches such followers may have belonged to. You are perfectly correct on that point. This means, to mormons, that no church existed at the time of Joseph Smith, and no other church exists today, that is actually authorized by God to act in God's name, such as to perform baptisms recognized by God, for example. Mormons also believe that without such God-authorized baptism, voluntarily received, in this life (or in the next by means of a living proxy), people will be "damned" as stated in your previous quotation (although mormon "damnation" in this sense is more like Catholic "purgatory"). Mormons view such baptism as necessary but not sufficient, and view being "a humble follower of Christ" as equally (if not more) important. This is why mormons would see the statement that "non-mormons will be damned (and a good many mormons too)" more as a somewhat hyperbolic comment on the authority of existing churches than as a comment about the people (individual Christian believers) themselves, as such people may well be among the "humble followers of Christ."

Belief in an exclusive authorization of God is understandably offensive to some, but mormons are not alone in believing in some kind of exclusive religious authority, and why would they believe in a "restoration" of Christ's church and authority anyway, if they didn't believe also in a need for such a restoration?

What mormons do not believe is that there were no "humble followers of Christ" at the time of and before Joseph Smith, or that members of other churches are themselves "corrupt" or "abominable," or even that leaders of all churches everywhere anytime between the apostles and Joseph Smith are or were corrupt.

If you go read Joseph Smith History 1 as a whole to get the "professors" term in context, you will see that, in context, "professors" is used synonymously with "preacher(s)", "men of high standing", and "great ones of the leading sects of the day." (See for example, verses 21-24.) Given this use in context, it seems likely that Smith had these same people in mind in your quotation about the hope of salvation. But regardless of that, not only do mormons understand the "professors" of the Joseph Smith History reference you orginally pointed to (1:18-20) to refer specifically to leaders of churches, they also understand it to refer to the specific leaders of the specific churches or congregations of the particular time and place. You will also see that it appears to be these "professors" who "teach for doctrines the precepts of men."

As you point out, mormons sing hymns from many of the great protestant hymn writers. Further, mormon leaders have also acknowledged a debt of gratitude to various protestant reformers, including Luther and the Wesley brothers and others. Mormons also seem frequently to quote from C. S. Lewis. This all seems inconsistent with mormons believing that all non-mormon Christian believers are "corrupt" or "abominable."

The reason for the inconsistency is simply that mormons generally (and presumably Glenn Beck in particular) just do not believe that all non-mormon Christian believers are "corrupt" or "abominable."

As I see your argument, the outline is (1) mormons believe X Y Z; (2) X Y Z is bad or dangerous or offensive; (3) so we should call them (including Glenn Beck) on it (or should not take them seriously, or should treat them as mentally suspect, or should get angry at them, or should be suspicious of their motives, or whatever). Some posters have disagreed with number (3) or number (2). Some have probably agreed with all. I am just disagreeing with some of your points under number (1), that's all.

[Tennessee Nana]

What mormons do not believe is that there were no “humble followers of Christ” at the time of and before Joseph Smith, or that members of other churches are themselves “corrupt” or “abominable,” or even that leaders of all churches everywhere anytime between the apostles and Joseph Smith are or were corrupt.
_________________________________________________

Then they dont believe Joeey Smith...

and they dont believe their own prophets...

[SZonian]

First off, I think the work Glenn Beck is doing is important, however, he has a very large chink in his armor.

I think that most of the squawking going on by mormons is due to the fact that what the inmans are posting is sourced from the lds church and is exposing the weak foundation the church is built on.

Whether or not you feel it advances the cause of conservatism is irrelevant. My understanding of what the original poster was opining about relates to the credibility of someone who is speaking for many conservatives and could be exposed as someone prone to following fairy tales as fact.

This does not promote conservatism, it shows conservatives as weak minded and foolish. It also undermines future efforts from like minded people as well.

Conservative commentators in this day and age must be above reproach. The mormonism claims are not above reproach, ergo, Beck is not above reproach.

That’s my $0.10 worth.

[pissant]

To dingbats, I’m sure it does.

[Tennessee Nana]

BYU prof Kent Jackson, in his Lds Ensign article on the so-called complete Christian apostasy, writes: By a.d. 95 only John remained, as far as we know...The apostasy did not happen because the Apostles were gone; the Apostles were taken because the apostasy had occurred. EarlySignsOfTheApostasy
____________________________________________

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

That doesnt explain why John was still here AFTER the others were dead...

Why didnt they all just DROP DEAD the moment the so called “apostacy” had occured ???

BTW Joey Smith was an “apostate” ...

The apostacy had been going on for 1800 years when he was born...

The church was gone, the gospel was gone...

Since the gospel and the church had not yet been restored until he come along, he had to be an apostate...

Why would anyone listen to an apostate ???

[restornu]

Golly!

PRESBYTERIANs believe everythjing you just posted!

****

No you don’t

Still pulling a Pelosi

[NoRedTape]

"I prefer to focus on the fact you have a Socialist Party member and communist sympathizer quoted on your profile page. That is the core of your foundation here"

LOL! Really? I have a LOT of quotes. I'll change them around if you're fair and balanced. I doubt you're either.

So sorry to spread the news on Joe's Myth. Guess you're not used to straight-up truth.

Best to read here for all mormon truthful feedback. Let me know what else you need. If you need anything from the great folks from Nauvoo who were REALLY ticked (to put it mildly) that Joe Smith ordered their printing press destroyed, just let me know. Joe Smith was a sheister and a fraud. Anyone with 2 brain cells realizes that.

All the truth on mormonism here.

Hey do me a favor..........I have an astronomy meeting next week - please let me know where the star "kolob" is would you? I need to know exactly where it is. You know, where god grew-up as a man and became a god.

LOL!

No worries - mormons can believe ANYTHING they want. They just have zero right to call themselves "Christian".

But you already know that.

[NoRedTape]

Where did that come from?

Best to simply refer to the Apostle's Creed.

The key is that anything Joe Smith was involved in was a scam, and a sheister scam. Read mormon history. My dalmation (1972-1979) was more of a "prophet" than Joe Smith could ever hope to be.

[SkyPilot]

Bashing anyone over whatever cockamamie religion they practice is wrong unless they try to impose it upon you

What the Mormon Missionaries Won't Tell You

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) is one of the most active modern practitioners of missionary work, with over fifty thousand full-time missionaries worldwide, as of June 2007.

Mormon Missionary Tactics

But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. 2 Timothy 3: 1-7

[Rome2000]

A couple of tie wearing geeks on bicycles aren’t really a threat to force their religion on you, I was talking more about radical islamists and other sects who use violence against unbelievers.

[NautiNurse]

Harpies promoting socialism on a conservative website.

[NautiNurse]

A couple of tie wearing geeks on bicycles aren’t really a threat to force their religion on you

When someone isn't comfortable and secure with their own faith, they can develop an overwhelming fear of another's beliefs, and perceived threats to their salvation. Give these insecure neurotics web access and a forum, and viola!

21st Century Harpies.

[Elsie]

and they dont believe their own prophets...

And they SURE do not follow their own SCRIPTURE!!

(D&C 132)