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To: the invisib1e hand; Dr. Eckleburg

So is the Pope above criticism? Is he infallible?


4 posted on 08/20/2009 12:40:53 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (everything that deceives, also enchants: Plato)
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To: 1000 silverlings

He’s infallible on issues of faith and morals. Otherwise, no.

That being said, those with more than three working brain cells can clearly read in the pope’s words a call for global morality, not global government. The key is the word “subsidiarity”. The pope is saying that only a global order founded upon the natural law ( = Judeo-Christian morality ) and as a confederation of sovereign local authorities ( = subsidiarity ) can be legitimate. This implies that any international order founded upon “enlightenment”, humanistic principles, and/or one constituting a single, global sovereignity, cannot be legitimate.


10 posted on 08/20/2009 12:47:42 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: 1000 silverlings

The Pope is infallable in matters of Church Dogma as presented by the Holy Spirit and Morals. I believe that Satans curse of abortion is a good example of where the Holy Father is infallable


27 posted on 08/20/2009 3:11:34 PM PDT by jesseam (Been there and done that!)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; Frumanchu; Gamecock
So is the Pope above criticism? Is he infallible?

The short answer is "he's almost never infallible."

The longer answer is "he's only infallible when speaking ex cathedra and when speaking of doctrine specifically [government, politics and economics don't qualify as doctrine]. Only the Magisterium, when viewed as a whole over time, is held to be 100% infallible."

The detailed answer is that 99.9% of all papal statements aren't made ex cathedra. The possibility (and opportunity) always exists that the Pope will speak in error doctrinally, if he's not speaking ex cathedra - and there have only been a handful of ex cathedra statements made in the entire history of the Catholic Church (remembering that infallible teachings must by definition be on dogma and doctrine). Thus, the possibility that any pope will speak in error regarding political and economic issues is [statistically speaking] a rock solid 100%, according to the doctrine of papal infallibility. There's no reason to say that Pope Benedict XVI can't be advocating socialism, and I think the recent is pretty clear that even if he's not outright promoting it, he's certainly in support of it. I'm afraid that all too many Catholics push their admiration of the Pope into idol worship, believing that the Pope speaks impeccably in all matters. As one FReeper explained it to me years ago, "papal impeccability is not a Catholic dogma."

But in the end, the final answer to the question of "So is the Pope above criticism? Is he infallible?" is "Shut up and kiss the ring." No one is permitted to question the Vicar of Christ's guidance. If he says that

- food and the access to water are a universal right of all humans,
- abandoning mechanisms of wealth redistribution will hinder the achievement of lasting development
- technologically advanced societies can and must lower their domestic energy consumption
- labor unions should expand their influence over those outside their membership, and beyond national boundaries,
- a reform of the United Nations Organization is necessary, likewise a reform of economic institutions and international finance, so that the concept of the "family of nations" can acquire real teeth.
as he did in his recent encyclical Caritas in veritate, you'll be expected to step aside and let the centralists and socialists take over. Your eternal salvation is in jeopardy if you don't go along with whatever he says, whenever he says it.
104 posted on 08/21/2009 12:40:20 PM PDT by Alex Murphy (One man, alone! Betrayed by the country he loves, now its last hope in their final hour of need!)
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To: 1000 silverlings

Yes, especially when ordering lunch...always let the Pope order first and follow his lead...magritte


210 posted on 08/22/2009 10:59:51 AM PDT by magritte ("I will give this monkey for lunch to Mr Sata,")
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