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When takers outvote makers
JS Online ^ | 8-8-09 | Jim Burkee

Posted on 08/09/2009 3:46:07 PM PDT by Indy Pendance

Lost in the vigorous national debate over health care reform is the potentially transformative effect any major legislation will have on the nature of American democracy. The deeper question we should be debating is this: What happens to our democracy when a majority of American voters depend on the government for a paycheck?

Our nation's founding generation was profoundly aware of the relationship between economic independence and democratic participation. In classical Athens, Aristotle had argued that political participation required property ownership, since those who did not own property "have no share in the state." Likewise, our founders largely restricted voting rights to those who owned property, believing that a voter's independence of judgment and desire for liberal self-government was found only in those not economically dependent on others.

Political philosopher Isabel Paterson expressed similar concerns during World War II, as government grew to unprecedented size. Dividing society into three categories - economic producers, those who depend on government and redistributors - she asked, as Aristotle and our founders had, what happens to democratic society when non-producers can vote themselves benefits at the expense of the producing class?

We're about to find out.

In 2008, just under half of all voters were either receiving Social Security; drawing a paycheck from federal, state or local government; or dependent on state assistance such as food stamps. Last year, about 210 million Americans were eligible to vote. Of those, at least 42 million were adults on Social Security (primarily retirees and disabled workers). Add to that almost 15 million federal government employees, 16 million state and local employees and 30 million recipients of food stamps, and just over 100 million Americans - just under half of all eligible voters - are directly dependent on government.

Even before the debate over national health care, that ratio of independent-to-dependent, or private vs. public sector voters, was about to change. The Social Security Administration projects that within 25 years, the number of retirees will almost double, from today's 39 million to 75 million. The number of disabled recipients of Social Security is also expected to soar to nearly one in four working-age Americans.

Based on Social Security Administration projections, there will be as many as 100 million Americans drawing a Social Security check by 2034. Even if the number of federal and state employees and recipients of food stamps remains static over the next 25 years (hardly likely), the proportion of government-dependent Americans to the overall voting-age population will reach nearly 70% by 2034, or 161 million out of 233 million eligible voters.

Government-dependent voters are much less likely than private-sector voters to favor cost-cutting reforms. Although older voters (baby boomers and above) split evenly in the 2008 presidential election, precious few favor reforming Social Security - or even acknowledge that it is headed toward insolvency.

An April 2009 survey found that most baby boomers - Republican, Democrat and independent - favor raising taxes to keep Social Security benefits unchanged, instead of reducing benefits.

In layman's terms, when they are retired and no longer paying taxes, government-dependent retirees favor raising everyone else's taxes to pay for their benefits.

We already know that federal employees tend to favor bigger government since their livelihoods are directly affected by federal spending. The Association of Federal Government Employees, which already has over 700,000 employees, promotes higher federal employee pay, lower federal employee health insurance premiums and bigger government - at the expense of a rapidly shrinking private sector.

The health care reform proposal making its way through the House of Representatives threatens to dramatically aggravate that imbalance by driving insurance companies into extinction and federalizing the nation's health care system, transforming 14.5 million private sector health industry workers into federal employees. Such a dramatic shift would move the ratio of public-sector voters to over 75% - and that doesn't even include farmers dependent on agricultural subsidies.

Before we reach this demographic tipping point, we need a national discussion about the consequences of having such a historically high ratio of dependent voters.

Like it or not, over the next two decades America will become a true welfare state. In the debate over national health care we need to decide what that will mean for our democracy.


TOPICS: Editorial; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: agenda; bho44; bhotaxincrease; healthcare; welfarestate
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To: Lurker
War.

Maybe there could be some steps before we run headlong into one. Makers insisting on voters providing identification could be a first step to limiting some of the fraud. Of course when this idea is floated the proposer is immediately bombarded by racism charges. Before war should come a legitimate Tax Revolt where all earners claim 10 exemptions to evapoate all withholdings. Then no filing. Also rather than the makers being the attackers in the war the Government must be made to be the oppressors. There are off to a good start on that one.

41 posted on 08/09/2009 4:47:51 PM PDT by Kudsman (A lifetime of public service = a lifetime of getting serviced by the public.- Mark Steyn)
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To: Indy Pendance

bttt


42 posted on 08/09/2009 4:48:28 PM PDT by petercooper (GOP: Big Tent Party??? Not if you are a CONSERVATIVE.)
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To: FreeSouthernAmerican

You know...that is what I though a while ago... I had two nice 401K plans with lots of money (over a million total) and thought I had it made. Well, the abrupt downturn wiped me out not just figuratively, but realistically. Lost almost all of it except for about 60 thousand...geez.

Now I have to survive on Social Security and am glad it is still available - although maybe not for long. Not feeling all that secure about my son’s 401K at this time...and I doubt that Social Security will be viable in the future.

So...I live as I can, knowing that 401K plans are just as bogus as Social Security... You just have to be lucky and get out at the right time I guess...


43 posted on 08/09/2009 4:59:34 PM PDT by Deagle
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To: Spktyr
One hitch in the military or 20 years civil service.

Or give birth to one child that is being supported without state help.

44 posted on 08/09/2009 5:13:24 PM PDT by NurdlyPeon (Sarah Palin: Americas last, best hope for survival.)
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To: Indy Pendance

What we need is a minimum income tax rate that EVERYONE must pay, say 5.00%, to do away with the huge number of people who pay no income taxes and therefore want tax rates on everyone else increased.


45 posted on 08/09/2009 5:17:17 PM PDT by MIchaelTArchangel (I AM JIM THOMPSON!)
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To: pharmamom
"Easy answer: if you are not paying taxes of some kind (income, FICA or taxes on investments), you don’t vote. Or you don’t vote if you are a net “taker” versus a net producer. Or if you are receiving a check from the government of any kind, except for a system like social security to which you have contributed, you don’t vote."

Maybe we should put that idea to a vote.

46 posted on 08/09/2009 5:19:54 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Buck Ofama!!)
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To: Indy Pendance

I’ve talked about the Baraqqi coalition for months.

Illegals
Welfare recipients
Union members
Minorities
Idiot libs

Add them up and you get scary close to a voting majority, I’m afraid.

I do hold out some hope for 010 when the Messiah is not on the ballot and we can go after individual Dems in Congress.

Pray for gridlock.


47 posted on 08/09/2009 5:24:18 PM PDT by nascarnation
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To: muir_redwoods
"Or if you are receiving a check from the government of any kind..."

And what's your stance on military retirement checks?

--------------------------------------------------------


RESISTOR

Swear allegiance to the flag, whatever flag they offer;
Never hint at what you really feel.
Teach the children quietly for, someday, sons and daughters
Will rise up and fight while we stood still.

Der Elite Møøsënspåånkængrüppen ØberKømmändø (EMØØK)

48 posted on 08/09/2009 5:24:31 PM PDT by BlueLancer (I'm getting a fine tootsy-frootsying right here...)
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To: pharmamom

Sorry, my response #48 should have been addressed to you.


49 posted on 08/09/2009 5:27:37 PM PDT by BlueLancer (I'm getting a fine tootsy-frootsying right here...)
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To: Kudsman
Maybe there could be some steps before we run headlong into one.

We're all out of steps my friend. And we aren't the ones pushing it.

50 posted on 08/09/2009 5:31:34 PM PDT by Lurker (The avalanche has begun. The pebbles no longer have a vote.)
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To: Indy Pendance
It’s great to know you know people in the 30-40 year old bracket pissed off!

It is a bright spot - They're not all Obama-Zombies.

51 posted on 08/09/2009 5:40:22 PM PDT by Iron Munro (You can't kill the beast while sucking at its teat - Claire Wolfe)
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To: Indy Pendance
It’s great to know you know people in the 30-40 year old bracket pissed off!

It is a bright spot - They're not all Obama-Zombies.

52 posted on 08/09/2009 5:40:23 PM PDT by Iron Munro (You can't kill the beast while sucking at its teat - Claire Wolfe)
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To: FreeSouthernAmerican
Wasn’t our founding based on “no taxation, without representation”? They had no problem being taxed as long as their interests were being represented in government. Wouldn’t that beg to say then that it would also be “no representation, without taxation”? All squares are rectangles, therefore all rectangles are squares? That king of "logic" doesn't work.
53 posted on 08/09/2009 6:42:27 PM PDT by The Toad
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To: FreeSouthernAmerican
Wasn’t our founding based on “no taxation, without representation”? They had no problem being taxed as long as their interests were being represented in government. Wouldn’t that beg to say then that it would also be “no representation, without taxation”? All squares are rectangles, therefore all rectangles are squares? That king of "logic" doesn't work.
54 posted on 08/09/2009 6:42:31 PM PDT by The Toad
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To: MIchaelTArchangel

What we need is a minimum income tax rate that EVERYONE must pay, say 5.00%, to do away with the huge number of people who pay no income taxes and therefore want tax rates on everyone else increased.

______________________________________________________________
Did someone say flat tax ?


55 posted on 08/09/2009 6:47:57 PM PDT by gunner03
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To: Indy Pendance
what happens to democratic society when non-producers can vote themselves benefits at the expense of the producing class?

This has been happening, and growing, since the mid-sixties. My only real amazement is that it actually worked for so long without a murmur from the producers ("progressive" tax rates anyone?), but the greed of the parasites was somewhat checked by never having all three branches of government firmly on "their" side.

That is about to change and the conclusion can naively be called a big explosive surprise or, more realistically, the second, bloody civil war. The results can'r be pretty no matter what the outcome.

We live in interesting times.

56 posted on 08/09/2009 6:52:50 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Change is not a plan; Hope is not a strategy.)
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To: Publius6961
I have a 'who is John Galt' sticker on my car. I figure the libs won't get it. Within my family, (Thank God, I've raised conservatives, hope my grand babies heed the warning), we have a saying, we've gone Galt, Going Galt, Or the fun one: What would Galt do? All I can say is, we're trying hard to NOT contribute to the economy. Why support the government. We are trying every way to take away from the takers, see this thread: When takers outvote makers" takers.
57 posted on 08/09/2009 7:39:20 PM PDT by Indy Pendance ("The beauty of the 2nd is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Publius6961

Give us the simple liberties that Mexicans enjoy, to purchase safe, effective drugs without a doctor’s prescription. We are enslaved and painted as ignorant by our doctors. If you need a drug for the rest of your life, then why can’t your get a lifetime prescription?

In Mexico, you can get antibiotics, steroids, ED drugs, amphetamines, antihistamines and many other drugs with the knowledge of your pharmacist that your doctor ordered this a while back or it’s obvious you need it.

Just in my case alone, in the past two months,it has cost more than $1,000 to get drugs I knew that I needed, and could have gotten without an Rx in Mexico. We are enslaved and don’t even know it. Yes, lawyers need to be bitch-slapped but so do doctors.


58 posted on 08/09/2009 7:43:25 PM PDT by bukkdems (When we end our dependence on oil, what will we do without plastic?)
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To: bukkdems

I used to go to Mexico for business, A LOT, A Lot. I was ther for months at a time. It was amazing how many freedoms they had compared to the US.
Smoke where you want. We’re suckers. Our government pretends to be ‘for the people’, they’re just priming the pump. People, beware, they want to control the US, and obama is the key. He can’t fool everyone, and he’s falling apart! We need to keep highlighting his downfalls.


59 posted on 08/09/2009 7:51:22 PM PDT by Indy Pendance ("The beauty of the 2nd is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Indy Pendance
It was amazing how many freedoms they had compared to the US.

At least one FReeper I have seen sports the tagline, "Does anybody still believe this is a free country?" You don't realize how bad the nanny state is until you go somewhere that they don't have one.

60 posted on 08/09/2009 8:26:42 PM PDT by thulldud (It HAS happened here!)
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