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Walmart Considers 3 GW Solar Deployment for Its Stores
DailyTech ^ | July 31, 2009 | Jason Mick

Posted on 07/31/2009 12:08:23 PM PDT by LuxMaker

Trial deployment being started to test the waters

Interest in solar power remains high -- as do the costs associated with deploying the technology.  The field is an interesting case; costs have been progressively dropping as efficiencies have been rising.  However, there's also concerns about materials and potentially easier to harvest alternatives such as wind and nuclear energy to consider.  Ultimately, major adopters could help to tip the scale in solar power's favor by offering the kind of funding needed to create mass production on the massive scale needed to drop cost.


One such major adopter may soon commit to solar power -- Walmart.  Known for its financial savvy and cutthroat competitive nature, Walmart has started a trial deployment at a few stores.  If it deems the results acceptable, it plans to roll out solar panels on the roofs of all its stores.

That makes for a deployment of approximately 35 square miles.  That in turn would result in -- estimating conservatively 3 watts per square foot -- about 3 GW of total capacity.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailytech.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; Technical
KEYWORDS: energy; retail; solar; walmart
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To: -YYZ-
Not in small quantitities, but if there was enough of it you now have a relatively unpredictable power generation source on the grid, not something that the operators generally want. Averaged over a large enough area, though, much as with wind power, it should be manageable.

From the standpoint of the interconnection (the grid, if you will), it's not significant as a generating source until it starts reaching the megawatt level. I don't mean megawatts of reduced load, I mean megawatts of energy in excess of load being pushed back into the grid. Then, a simple tabulation system, a modem, and a moderately good internet connection are all that are required.

We've been telemetering energy-generating industrial customers using 1200 bps modems for years. Only in the last 10 years or so have we started using broadband.

21 posted on 07/31/2009 1:10:47 PM PDT by meyer (Obama's failure is America's Success.)
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To: Reeses

Cool - extra power bonus in a thunderstorm! :-)


22 posted on 07/31/2009 1:17:57 PM PDT by meyer (Obama's failure is America's Success.)
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To: LuxMaker

I find it doubtful that this will ever be economically feasible. Shell recently got out of solar, saying that it would take a quantum leap in technology for solar energy to be profitable.


23 posted on 07/31/2009 1:22:44 PM PDT by Fractal Trader
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To: LuxMaker

I hate shopping at WalMart since they’ve gone green.
Unless it is full sun thru their skylights it is too dark in there now to see what I’m buying. And I HATE the new low-flow mens room. It makes hand washing a 20 minute adventure.


24 posted on 07/31/2009 1:43:56 PM PDT by Buckeye McFrog
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To: marron
Not full of it. It is expensive and takes up enormous amounts of land

Land? Have you seen the roof area of a typical Wallyworld? The land is already spoken for, but the roof is, well, open and available. It could also have the added benefit, depending on how it's installed, of shading the roof from direct sunlight, possibly helping to reduce cooling requirements during summer months and in areas of the south year round.

I mean, yea, solar has it's issues, but it's Wallyworld's money, and if they feel they can justify it, and it will provide them some benefit, let them have at it. And if it helps lower solar costs for anyone else in the process; what's to complain about?

25 posted on 07/31/2009 1:51:59 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: businessprofessor

“It is simply outrageous that residential solar is given huge subsidies”

Yep and I won’t take that money. Who knows what kind of strings are attached and I won’t steal my neighbors money that way.

Solar has its uses. But residential or even commercial for Walmart isn’t one of them.

Google spent an enormous amount of money on solar for their data centers. It give them about 20 seconds of electricity each year.


26 posted on 07/31/2009 1:58:33 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: chimera
5 days with low light is about the limit of my system. At that point, I can use the generator at 100% to recharge batteries in a couple of hours.

/johnny

27 posted on 07/31/2009 1:59:09 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (God Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: Jewbacca

“Pretty sure I want them with solar or wind, not fissionable material.”

I’d rather they provided customer support and let the energy company worry about providing electricity.


28 posted on 07/31/2009 1:59:27 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: ctdonath2
I have been using solar at remote wireless links and for engineering remote instrumentation sites for years. When I moved to the country place, and realized that I didn't need air conditioning, I engineered and installed my own system. I'm heavy on storage, and adequate on collectors.

I'll be adding a wind generator (free, all I have to do is remove it) to the system this fall for winter use.

I'm also building my own house, and it is VERY energy efficient. I don't have lots of big appliances, and NO TV.

If you decide to play with it, use Trace or Outback equipment. They are bulletproof and generally have an upgrade path.

/johnny

29 posted on 07/31/2009 2:05:18 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (God Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: meyer

I’m completely solar too...off the grid for energy, water, waste (composting toilets), wood stove heat (air tight, energy efficient, very minimal pollution). Paid for it myself—no subsidies—over the course of five years. Great investment and I feel that I have some semblance of control over my life.


30 posted on 07/31/2009 2:07:37 PM PDT by winnotwhine (It's easy to whine...I'd rather win)
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To: winnotwhine
Sounds like my place. This year is being spent in becoming self sufficient on food, tobacco, and beer. Welcome to the 1800s, with high-speed data links. I get my internet from the co-op network I help maintain. The only bill I pay is insurance and cell phone, and I only pay it when I want to talk to someone. ;)

/johnny

31 posted on 07/31/2009 2:18:27 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (God Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: LuxMaker

Actually, it could be a great business decision.

If a whole area loses power, and people still need to buy things, guess where they are going to go? To the one (or few) place that has power and lights, and working registers.

It’s not a terrible idea from that point of view. Plus their perishables will still have refrigeration.


32 posted on 07/31/2009 2:23:26 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: winnotwhine

Until they mandate your evacuation at gunpoint.


33 posted on 07/31/2009 2:25:05 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I'd like to tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.)
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To: AFreeBird
Have you seen the roof area of a typical Wallyworld?

When I say that solar is a niche producer, I think this is the niche I'm talking about. So I don't think we're in disagreement here.

What I don't agree with are the big solar farms. There are two near me, one is 9000 acres to produce 500 megawatts, the other is 4500 for 250 megawatts. 13000 acres to produce what a natgas plant could produce on 40. Wind power is similarly wasteful of land.

But rooftop panels to supplement, to handle day-time peaks such as your HVAC load, that has promise as the costs come down.

They can't replace the big power plants, but they can take the edge off the daytime peaks.

34 posted on 07/31/2009 2:58:41 PM PDT by marron
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To: marron
Agreed.

Algore wants 10,000sq miles of desert for a solar farm. That's absurd!

35 posted on 07/31/2009 3:04:09 PM PDT by AFreeBird
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To: Reeses

Green fad or not...it is a great feeling being off the grid. The word ‘independent’ immediately comes to mind. And what’s boring about solar energy?


36 posted on 07/31/2009 3:31:07 PM PDT by winnotwhine (It's easy to whine...I'd rather win)
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To: JRandomFreeper
How many deep-charging cycles will your batteries handle before needing replacement? Where do the used batteries go for disposal? What is the cost of battery replacement? Are they portable? Could they work in an automobile?

I'm not asking antagonizing questions, believe it or not. I have an interest in the potential for electric substitution in the transport sector, and energy storage and portability are one major issue, along with range and environmental controls (heating in winter and A/C in summer). I see those as the major challenges right now for EVs. I really believe that costs can be brought down, but performance compared to gasoline-fueled vehicles is a tougher nut to crack.

37 posted on 07/31/2009 4:22:39 PM PDT by chimera
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To: JRandomFreeper

I would like to pick your brain. I am writing a How-To book with a supporting website on designing, building, and living off grid, but from a purely practical (conservative) point of view. I think that with the upcoming cap and trade legislation and the “Smart Grid”, off grid living will start to be a bit more popular.

I have found it difficult to find people that have done it on practical principal versus carbon foot print thinking.


38 posted on 07/31/2009 4:44:17 PM PDT by Andrewksu
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To: chimera
The batteries are good for at least 15 years. For disposal, I may not have to worry about that, but there are failed mines in the area that have plenty of room. They are not portable, unless you have 2 men and a boy to carry each one. The entire assembly is on a skid and can be lifted with a fork lift. They will NOT work in an auto, either gas or electric.

Didn't see any antagonism in your questions. They were all legitimate engineering questions.

Remember that as a geek, I also use low cost, low energy consumption tech on the consumption side. The smaller the average power requirement, the smaller the PV system.

/johnny

39 posted on 07/31/2009 5:07:14 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (God Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: Andrewksu
I'm a conservative. I conserve. I was 'green' before green was cool. I take seriously the Biblical injunction to be a good steward. The eco-idiots, as we saw in the video from California don't have a clue. I don't grow my vegetables on vegetables trees, and output = input - conversion losses. And the second law of thermogoddamics still holds.

Ask away, but maybe on the freepmail side, so we don't clutter the forum.

/johnny

40 posted on 07/31/2009 5:12:35 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (God Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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