Unveiled! Hawaii's 1961 long-form birth certificates

WND ^ | 7/28/09 | Jerome Corsi

[tc45a]

The certificate number is not likely to be a sequence of birth number. It is most likely a sequence of health department form processing. If the number was based on a birth sequence then the health department would have to hold up issuing other birth certificates while waiting for forms that they wouldn’t even know existed. That does not make any sense at all. The order that the forms were received at the health department would be the order of sequencing for the certificate numbers.

Bingo. Needs repeated for MHGinTN

[BP2]

Anyway you cut it, Obama's Certificate number should be BEFORE, not AFTER, the Nordyke twins!

His form was accepted/filed by the Registrar THREE days before both of the Nordyke twins. The turn-around time by the state in the 60s is less than a week -- 4-6 days as shown below. YET his Certificate # is THREE certificate numbers BEFORE Gretchen's.

Name	Location of Birth	Birth Cert #	(Day) Date/Time Born	Date of Signature of Parent or Other Informant	(Day) Date Accepted by Local Reg.	Diff bet Date born & Accepted by Local Reg.
Barack Hussein Obama	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10641	(Fri) Aug. 4, 1961 7:24 pm	unknown	Aug. 8, 1961 *	4 days
Susan Elizabeth Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10637	(Sat) Aug. 5, 1961 2:12 pm	Aug 8, 1961	Aug 11, 1961	6 days
Gretchen Carter Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10638	(Sat) Aug. 5, 1961 2:17 pm	Aug 8, 1961	Aug 11, 1961	6 days
Edith Pauline Coats	Wahiawa Gen. Hospital	151-62-08498	(Fri) June 15, 1962 3:51 am	June 15, 1962	June 19, 1962	4 days

* Note: Obama’s Certification states “Date Filed by Registrar” instead of “Date Accepted by Registrar”

[BP2]

[BP2]

It is most likely a sequence of health department form processing.

Please see post 262 and 263.

If it was based upon when the form was received (i.e., accepted/filed) by the Registrar, then Obama's number should STILL be lower, NOT higher, than the twin's birth certificate numbers.

[pissant]

Keep it up!!!

[hoosiermama]

BP meet LS Ls may have some private questions for you, please assist

LS note posts 262-63

[WVNan]

You’re right. I usually don’t make sense before noon.

[tc45a]

If it was based upon when the form was received (i.e., accepted/filed) by the Registrar, then Obama's number should STILL be lower, NOT higher, than the twin's birth certificate numbers.

There could have been multiple people processing these forms at the Registers office. Some may have worked faster than others. There could be many legitimate reasons the dates and numbers don't match. I don't think the registers office put the forms in order based upon date and birth hour-they could probably have cared less. All they wanted was to get them registered.

I want more info before making a decision.

[LucyT]

If it was based upon when the form was received (i.e., accepted/filed) by the Registrar, then Obama’s number should STILL be lower, NOT higher, than the twin’s birth certificate numbers.

Ping to posts 262-264.

[binary]

It is a good thing to question everything. Including the certificate numbers. But is also a good thing to throw away questions and possible answers that do not make good sense or are unlikely.

Look at the newspaper announcements. The missing 'twins' announcement is assumed to be replaced on microfilm with 0bamas announcement. This is not likely. The 'twins' parents may have opted out of an announcement. The most simple explanation is usually the best. But if I were to see real evidence of tampered with microfilm then the simplest explanation would be some sort of fraud.

The fact that the the certificate shown for 0bama has a sequence number close to that of the twins tells me the paperwork was filed near his birth date. But that does not mean there was not fraud involved in the paperwork. Based on multiple types of filing in HI there is certainly room for deception to confer US citizenship on a child if a parent or guardian wanted to.

[BP2]

I'm not ready to accept that based upon ALL of the other information out there about Ann Dunham's whereabouts in 1961. I'm more likely to believe that there was NO certificate number to begin with for Obama (sloppy record keeping), and the state "created" one for him (by his request, or his mother/grandmother) to make everything official.

While a proposed certificate was submitted (Date Filed by Registrar), it does NOT appear that it was ever accepted (Date Accepted by Registrar).

Accepted vs Filed (at bottom left of both forms):

Which makes the statement by Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino all the more curious:

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures,"

[LS]

Wow. I’m more confused than ever. It’s a blizzard. The most obvious thing is that the forms are different, and that it should be stunningly easy for Obama to produce the actual, real, form that looks like the twins’ form.

[LS]

Yeah, the difference in the two is obvious.

[mojito]

Well, well, well. It looks like this isn’t going to be the little story that just went away because CNN said so.

[rolling_stone]

Yes Ann went to U of W in Fall 1961 while Obama Sr was at U Hawaii. Ann lived in an area of Washington that was segregated at that time and had her name as Mrs Barack Obama in directories.

I don’t know if the little Obamination was with her or her mom or where since August 61.
Later Ann went to UH and may have had Obie Jr or her mom may have taken care of him...dont know until later...
lots of info on this lengthy thread

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2040486/posts?q=1&;page=1#1

here is another supposed timeline

[justiceseeker93]

Just so that nobody gets confused: the order of the certificates means nothing.

No way to determine whether or not you are correct on that statement, without access to a birth registry by which one can compare birth certificate numbers to dates and times of birth, and/or interviewing a state bureaucrat who was intimately familiar with the procedures at that time.

[binary]

I'm more likely to believe that there was NO certificate number to begin with for Obama (sloppy record keeping), and the state "created" one for him (by his request, or his mother/grandmother) to make everything official.

A question to ask then would be this: do you think the number they used on 0bamas certificate was reused (stolen) from another birth or was unused and available at right around the time 0bama 'needed to be born'. That just does not seem highly likely.

If there was a conspiracy it more likely was perpetrated by the mother or grandmother back in 1961 to confer US citizenship for reasons other than a possible run for the white house. This type of conspiracy would involve less participants and be a simpler solution to the question.

[binary]

I'm more likely to believe that there was NO certificate number to begin with for Obama (sloppy record keeping), and the state "created" one for him (by his request, or his mother/grandmother) to make everything official.

A question to ask then would be this: do you think the number they used on 0bamas certificate was reused (stolen) from another birth or was unused and available at right around the time 0bama 'needed to be born'. That just does not seem highly likely.

If there was a conspiracy it more likely was perpetrated by the mother or grandmother back in 1961 to confer US citizenship for reasons other than a possible run for the white house. This type of conspiracy would involve less participants and be a simpler solution to the question.

[justiceseeker93]

Strange that the now elderly Mrs. Nordyke has popped up twice (first time Dec. 22, 2008) in the Advertiser to help promote the idea that Obama was born in Kapiolani Hospital. Apparently, she has no definitive recollection of meeting Stanley Ann Dunham there, although she now "speculates" that Ms. Dunham may have arrived at the hospital later than she did, which, according to Mrs. Norkyke, would account for Obama's higher number on his birth certificate.

To put it diplomatically, one can't rule out the possibility that Mrs. Nordyke is being used as a pawn by the Obama folks and the Advertiser to help them with their "defense" in "Certifigate."

[ckilmer]

It’s interesting that Obama was born the day before the Nordyke twins were born, supposedly at the same hospital, yet the number on Obama’s birth certificate is a later number than the numbers on the Nordyke certificates.

http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/assets/gif/M1139416728.GIF

http://freecharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth_certificate_5.jpg