Posted on 07/19/2009 9:32:01 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
What to make of Ron Paul? The word erratic comes to mind. On domestic spending, he is a righteous guardian of small government, while on foreign affairs he is a dangerous isolationist who believes the world will leave us alone if we just tend to our own knitting. And as far as Sarah Palin and her supporters go, he is a space cadet, apparently.
An interview with Politico published today contains this startling assertion from Paul:
'As for soon-to-be departing Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, Paul dismisses her supporters as "more establishment, conventional Country-Club type of Republicans."'
This is odd indeed, detached from reality as it is. Sarah Palin is about as far from a country club Republican as one can find. And Texas sources indicate:
And if you were to check the membership rolls of the Lake Jackson Country Club here in Texas, I'd bet real money that you would find the names of Ron Paul and his wife Carol listed as lifetime members.
The assertion of The Pauls belonging to this country club is supported by other bloggers as well. Representative Paul (also an OB/GYN, by the way) should address the question of his alleged country club membership, if he is going to throw around this label.
Could it be that Ron Paul is jealous of Sarah Palin's popular support?
The politically conventional path is just what Palin supporters are following: take the guys/gals from the last batch of presidential/VP contenders with high name-recognition and spend energy trying to carry that into a future election.
Why not spend that same energy building up a lesser-known candidate such as Duncan Hunter, who I think most of us agree, would make an markably better president than Palin?
I'm still waiting to be impressed by Palin's conservative credentials.
But, yeah, for me it comes down to this: she's just not intelligent enough for me to support.
~LOL~ no, I don’t agree and what you are basing that on other than he is a man escapes me..... he has never had to balance a budget, etc..... Hunter is a nice guy, but there was a reason he received .05% of the vote in 2008.... no charisma and he has only been a congressman... if he is so great then he needs to run for CA Governor.
The article for this thread was a lying attack on both Palin and Paul (see post 223). Please don't fall for it.
So, you make a tremendous amount of assumptions about me, but you won’t reveal your service record, or lack thereof. I’ll ask you another non-personal question again: To what oath do members of the armed forces swear? You should know that even if you never served. You should definitely know it if you know the Constitution and have any thought of voting for anyone who might send troops into harms way. I expressed no opinion by enlisting. I enlisted to do what I said I would do. I’ve come up against a lot of people that give me this argument: “When you sign up, you sign up to do a job”. No you don’t. You take an oath. C’mon - at least tell me what the oath is! You seem to know so much about my intentions. They’re all contained in that simple little oath.
You don’t have to tell me what the military is. Out of sensitivity to you, I won’t tell you what your version is equivalent to. I hate to say it, but you do come off as someone who never served, at least not on the front. If you think that your human rights end and you become a pawn of the president when you enlist, then you definitely don’t know the rules. I have every right to ask you what about your service record if you think that someone has the right to tell me or my buddies what cause we live and die for.
And finally, I shouldn’t even dignify you “kerry” comment about the guys from my outfit. I never said anything about the conduct of U.S. military personnel as he did. But you minimize their sacrifice with this stupid and cold-hearted “So what, some of ‘em gotta die” attitude. And then you call me anti-American because I believe that their sacrifice should have been for their oath and not for a light and transient cause. That was a downright despicable thing to say. How can you even think something like that about people who gave up everything in the hope that you can keep all that you have. If you are religious, as you allude to, you should ask for forgiveness from God. You won’t get it from me.
Actually John Birch was a Christian missionary that was murdered in China.
Please get the facts correct.
I’m a proud member of JBS and have seen no one that espouses Anti-Semitic views...EVER!
I really don't think anyone takes an oath to preserve, protect and defend your delusions or paleoPaulie's as to the meaning of the US constitution. A constitution not flexible enough to allow for war against the nation's enemies, foreign or domestic, is a dead letter. I am not that pessimistic yet.
I am still waiting to see where the constitution connects or limits "war" to "defensive" or requires a formula of magic words in war resolutions.
You may have noticed that the FR popularity contest reasonably favors Caribou Barbie by a wide margin over the Galveston treason weasel. Naturally, you are trying to deal with anything and everything other than that reality and the fact that El Ron is batshit crazy on matters constitutional, military and foreign policy, among others. Five year olds can credibly play make believe. Congresscritters look silly trying whether they are pork barreling paleoPaulie or younger versions like Weepy Walter Jones or Dennis Cuckoocinich.
If you don't think soldiers risk death in wars as an occupational hazard, your doctors should have kept you at Happy Acres and prevented your enlistment. The military is not some anarchy where each soldier has his/her own foreign and military policy sensitive to his/her own "constitutional" hallucinations.
Second, use of the military to destroy those who would destroy our country also takes precedence. No sovereignty means no constitution.
We probably do have a lot in common but restoration of a long lost constitution or one that has resembled swiss cheese for a very long time is going to be a verrrrry long process. We cannot tolerate the slaughter of the infants or the destruction of the country while working to restore the constitution.
I think that people who would make the enemy's arguments to our people in time of well-justified war are, in fact, mouthpieces for the enemy. They may or may not realize the perfidy that they perpetrate. It does not matter what their subjective view may be. The objective reality is what counts. The things that Ron Paul has said about foreign policy are a rank disgrace and a more sensible nation would set him adrift in international waters in a leaky barge as a man without a country. Ancient Athens would have had him drink hemlock as punishment for his attempts to corrupt youth. Imagine what Sparta might have done to him.
I have taken for granted for nearly forty years that our economic situation and the addiction of public officials (including Paulie Earmarks) to grotesque wastes of taxpayer resources will necessitate the eventual bankruptcy of this nation.
The good news is that once the US bankrupts, no nation in its right mind would be caught dead extending credit again to the US. State and municipal bonds won't be very easy to issue either, getting rid of another entire class of often well-intentioned but damaging barnacles, sapping our nation, states, counties and municipalities but most importantly sapping our people.
$60 trillion is only money. It pales by comparison with the slicing, dicing and hamburgerization of even one innocent unborn.
I have taken a while to respond even to this extent and I will respond further in recognition of the more serious nature of your post to which I am replying.
It will take a while for me to see IOUSA on a very slow computer. I have see the first segment which looks like a lot of stuff I saw in my youth as a conservative. It won't make much of an impact if it an argument for a green-eye shaded, sleeve gartered America with little mission, no romance, no passion, no mission and no conscience, dedicated to protecting nothing more important than the coupon clippers in the back room at the Main Street Bank and Trust.
No nation with our resources is risking irrelevancy. We just have to re-organize after the bankruptcy, focus on the military, repudiate treaties that limit our national discretion, eliminate welfare state squandering, sever the stranglehold of SCOTUS, provide judicial term limits of short duration, eliminate Congressional squabbling over war strategy and a wide array of other actual reforms.
Libertarianism is an incomplete "philosophy" and inadequate for a major (or probably any other) nation's governance.
Resistance to war in times of war is NOT just a different way of looking at things and reflects a dangerous enmity against not merely the government but the nation and its people. If George Washington lost the revolution, he would have likely been hanged as a traitor to Great Britain. He won the revolution and a good thing too.
HA HA Ha ha ha!!! You are indeed the perfect liberal democrat! What AQ wanted to do was bankrupt America and draw lots of U.S. blood, thereby making anyone who would stand up for our country get voted out of power. And they succeeded!
Oh, and this is a gem: “A constitution not flexible enough...” Perfect liberal INTERPRETATION of a stone hard document! It’s beautiful. They love to “nuance” the Constitution’s meaning to expand gov’t power. You applied this to the “foreign and domestic” line - just wonderful! That’s exactly what the Obommunists will use when they come to get you, me, and everyone else who says we’re conservative. They’ll “nuance” and say it’s “flexible” enough to allow them to imprison U.S. citizens who are enemies of the gov’t!!!
And I never said the Constitution limited us to defensive wars. For God’s sake, man, name the nations that started offensive wars. It’s a roll call of fascist states.
What the heck do I care who’s most popular on FR? Obama is wildly popular too. Does that mean he’s the good guy? And RP was drafted and served. He’s been the lone NO vote on more anti-American legislation than anyone in history and you call HIM a coward.
And again, if you have an ounce of guts, tell me where you served and in what capacity. You don’t have to tell me the unit; just your MOS. You call all of us crazy or chicken or whatever and you don’t have the bravery to answer a question? You sure are brave with the blood of others, though. Maybe you can team up with your liberal/fascist brethren Bill and Hil, when the Obommunist goes down in flames and start a new “defensive” war in Kosovo - and watch from 2000 miles away...
We did not tolerate peace creeps in the conservative movement then and we never will. I got a permanent bellyful of antiwar buttholes during Vietnam. They are not coming back to pose as "conservative" while hamstringing this nation's military forces and use of same. You are about as "conservative" as Abbie Hoffman and Jerry Rubin and Stokely Carmichael and H. Rap Brown and Jane Fonda and Tom Hayden and you and paleoPaulie have the same foreign policy as those jerks: destroy the USA.
Whining about monetary policy or the Federal Reserve or obsessing over the actually liberal (i.e. similarities to paleocoward peace creeps) Council on Foreign Relations often for erroneous reasons has some tiny role to play in conservatism but will NEVER be as important as maintaining and using our military. You probably confuse self-centered libertoonianism for conservatism. Again, there is some tiny place in conservatism for libertarian values SO LONG AS they do not interfere with national and civilizational survival.
The real underlying evil of libertarianism is the idjit notion that there is nothing, absolutely nothing, more important than one's self-interest and nothing, absolutely nothing, worth perpetrating necessary violence to obtain. 50+ million babies surgically slaughtered in the US by action of our courts, no problem since you were not one of them and the slaughtered don't complain. The serial adulterer and abortion supporter Ayn Rand called charity "cruelty" in her earliest volume of "philosophical" essays. Her kind of libertarianism was characterized by Whittaker Chambers in National Review about 50 years ago as bearing the tone of "To a gas chamber: Go!"
As to the death toll in Iraq, before you get too too carried away with your selfishness posing as a political philosophy, six years of that war have produced 5,000 or so deaths of American troops. That number of Americans were killed on our highways in traffic accidents every four months during my teenage years and their deaths were also regrettable. That number of Americans are killed every six months here in our country by firearm but those firearms are also a basis for our freedom and we will live with the casualties. Freedom is worth it. Our military casualties obtain a dignity not available in most auto accidents in that their deaths occur in defense of nation, civilization and others. Each and every death is regrettable but not so regrettable as to justify turning the USA into some pitiful, cowardly excuse for a nation which has no greater purpose than your potential stock portfolio. Like the Galveston treason weasel, you would not know liberal if it jumped up and bit you (and, as a paleo, you would refuse to fight anyhow).
The real tragedy in many recent wars has been the abject cowardice of the politician class who allow our nation's will to be sapped by the siren songs of Marxist and paleo cowardice that nothing is worth fighting for, nothing worth sacrifice, and imagine yourself canoodling J. Random but anonymous eager antiwar chick rather than killing your nation's enemies which certainly does not preclude as much sex as the leftist ever got.
Countries which started offensive wars??? Assyria, Carthage, Mr. the Hun, Darius's Persia, Athens, Sparta, the Roman Republic, the Roman Empire, Plantagenet England, France, Russia, Hohenzollern Germany, Nazi Germany, Japan, Vandals, Goths, Visigoths, Franks, North Korea, Italy, the Muslim nations surrounding Israel, (soon) Israel against Ahmanutjob's Iran, previously Israel against Iraqi nuclear reactors, Christendom generally, the Holy Roman Empire, Spain, Tudor England, Scotland, Ireland in the time of Michael Collins, the USA, and a wide variety of others good and bad and middling. What's the paleopoint????
Obama isn't very popular around here and neither is paleoPaulie. This is a CONSERVATIVE website.
Paul opposed anti-American legislation???? Even a stopped clock...etc. He must have been chastised by his Islamofascist bosses for deviating from the notion of avast, Matey, show me your letters of marque and reprisal. That Paul opposed the existence of the Occupational Safety and Health Agency is nice but the fact remains that he is regarded (rightfully) as an eccentric moonbat by those around his and gets NOTHING actually enacted for freedom or otherwise other than earmarks, and naming post offices. Even in Congress, they know him as the village idiot even against the stiff Congressional competition for the title.
We are not living in 1776 or in 1787 or in 1865. Our founders were remarkable men but they were not infallible in their own time much less as to the challenges of our time. If you think that the constitution is "a stone hard document", get back on your meds because you haven't really read it. The founders were not brain dead libertoonians. They used language such as cruel and unusual punishment leaving to every succeeding generation the opportunity to define cruel and unusual. Where do you find "air force" in the constitution? We are a nation and not a museum. That requires that we assume the responsibilities of grown ups and not make believe that delusional jackasses like paleoPaulie and his political love slaves have some special authority by possession of copies of the constitution, reading lessons and whacko eccentric views and a desire to live in 1787 forever Is there some special cachet attached to paleoPaulie being drafted??? He served. Thank him very....etc. So did Comrade McGovern and many others whose views are also essentially anti-American. So what. That which is none of your business and utterly irrelevant to the theme of the thread: Why the paleopipsqueak thinks he is fit to kiss Caribou Barbie's backside is none of your business and utterly irrelevant. Stick to the subject or slink off to lavender Raimondo's antiwar.com where you and the Galveston treasonweasel belong. If Obamabots come to get you because of some delusion that peace creeps can EVER be conservative, the actual conservatives will defend you by letting Obama know how much you resemble him, particularly in anti-American foreign and military policy. Will paleoPaulie be joining Hussein to give "bipartisan" cover to the international groveling apology tour??? If he is too busy, maybe you can pinch hit.
Your first paragraph is yet another regurgitation of standard Al Qaeda propaganda. If Saddam's relatives or buds ever regain power through the combined Herculean efforts of the usual gang of leftist domestiCong and their allegedly rightist fifth column of Paulistinian traitors, maybe you would want to be the new Baghdad Bob.
Ron Paul did not call Sara Palin a "country club Republican" (see post 223). The article of this thread is a false story apparently planted for driving a wedge between the two most prominent anti-establishment Republicans.
Are you denying that the surrender monkey said that her supporters are country club Republicans??? I did not think so.
Thanks for the link at #223 to the original Politico article wherein, asked for the best and worst of Obama so far, the Galveston disgrace says that the best is that Obama has not attacked Iran so far and that the worst is that he might yet do so.
Heaven forbid that the United States might prevent the lunatics running Iran from becoming armed with nuclear weapons. Fortunately, we can probably depend on Bibi Netanyahu to wear the pants in the West until Obama is gone. Bibi will do for Iran what his predecessors did to Saddam Hussein's nuclear facilities. Neither Obama nor paleosurrenderman have the nads to do what needs doing.
The fact that El Run Paul votes appropriately on a few money issues when he is not stuffing the federal budget with shrimping subsidies, trolley subsidies, nursing scholarships (where DOES Mr. Constitution find the provisions for those pork schemes in the constitution's text???) and dozens of other looting opportunities. In foreign policy and military matters, he is as Republican as Ramsay Benedict Arnold Clark or International ANSWER.
Don't worry about some grand coalition of fifteen paleoPaulie love slaves and the actual conservative movement. We never would have accepted Neville Chamberlain any more than we would accept paleoPaulie. Those who nominated and elected Ronaldus Maximus can guarantee that Paul is going nowhere. Hopefully, we will do the honors on politically terminating his son Rand (no less!) in Kentucky while we are at it. No wedges need be planted by anyone. Every time El Run opens his yap in favor of surrendering to our nation's enemies, he guarantees that he will be accepted "Nevermore!" The lamestream media pisses off conservatives by noting Paulie's existence. The sooner the people at Galveston wreck this idjit in a GOP primary and nominate and elect an American to replace him the better.
Wow! You sure did a lot of political work! I guess that qualifies you to hurl personal insults at people like me, soldiers who didn’t want to die for a non-just cause, Ron Paul, and anyone who doesn’t worship at the altar of “big defense”. You’re so brave. I can imagine how tough you had it in the trenches of offices and political headquarters! You’re just so tough, I’m almost afraid for our enemies!!! All of us who served should be happy to lay down our lives for courageous people like you who have the guts to talk tough about enemies who are across the ocean! If only I could be like you...
And you’re right. God knows the ideals of free trade, free commerce, no income tax, no gun laws, no department of Education, EPA, IRS, dept of etc. etc. are such a tiny part of the realm of a true conservative! What really matters is big, big, defense - no, OFFENSE!!!
I was so selfish to think of myself and my fellow soldiers - those who were in combat should’ve been glad they weren’t in the real danger zones like you - highways and roads! I have a new profound respect for your courage. You probably escaped with some missing paint and a dent or two on your car but carry the scars of it forever. Probably wake up at night in a cold sweat dreaming of blaring horns and headlights. I can only imagine your pain...
And those nations - wow! That certainly a list of nations that we should emulate! It was stupid of us to shuck off the crown! You’re right, it’s not 1776 - we should go back before that and be a tough, imperialist power! It’s worked so well for the rest of the list!
I guess me and all my fellow soldiers and vets are just peace creeps. We were afraid to fight and stand up for our nation. On the other hand, we did enlist and served out our terms...what did you say your MOS was again?????????
Ron Paul did not call Sarah Palin a country club Republican.
Nice try though.
Plus a grand coalition consisting of unanimous Republican House co-sponsorship, many House Democrats, bipartisan Senate support, and an awakened populace demanding answers from the Federal Reserve. The pressure will only increase if the economy gets worse.
Dr. Paul's proposal to audit the Fed opposes the same set of Rino/Demo-elite fraudsters as Sara Palin's campaign against Cap-n-Tax. We have potential for a classic one-two punch Conservative alliance with Palin at the lead. Whose side are you on?
Whether dead Texas Demonrat Henry Gonzalez or living and batsh*t crazy El Run Paulie, the public is not going to be aroused by three hour hypertechnical monetary policy droning in Special Orders on C-SPAN.
If El Run has the unanimous support of Republican House members on auditing the Fed, who are the RINOs whom you reference in your last paragraph? Aren't Congressman Mark Kirk of Illinois and Mike Castle of Delaware still RINOs along with all too many others????
What Palin needs to do is to issue a manifesto to the effect that spineless paleopeacecreepism is not and never will be Republican policy. Then, having taken out the trash, she will be ready for prime time.
I can agree with abolishing the IRS, the federal (and any other) income tax, any and all gun laws, gummint misedjamakashun generally as well as the Department of Education and the Departments of etc., etc., etc. I cannot agree to the USA becoming a pitiful crippled giant hamstrung by the worst elements of the anti-American left and of those who, though fully as anti-American, pose as being somehow "conservative" like paleoPaulie and his love slaves. My generation of conservatives elected Ronaldus Maximus. When you elect the spineless eccentric peacecreep of Galveston, be sure to let us know.
Big, big defense DOES really matter unlike libertoonian heresies.
Free trade and free commerce are code for crushing American factory workers into low-paid submission. I think that America has seen enough jobs exported to Bangladesh to be performed at 7 cents an hour by eight-year olds, jobs exported by the same soulless corporations who expect to be defended by the American military made up largely of those who once had hopes of factory jobs.
I well understand that most veterans are not and never were and never will be pacifist weenies and that you are nothing vaguely resembling a mainstream example of a veteran.
Again, I would note that you are engaging in the understandable effort of peace creeps everywhere to confuse he issue of the thread which is paleoPaulie's attack on Sarah's supporters as "country club Republicans" (while he typically and actually belongs to a country club himself, but never mind). Maybe you can distract a few gullibles into not recognizing what an embarrassment Galveston has sent to Washington in Ron Paul.
I assume that you are not posting from beyond the grave and thus did not die. If you wanted to reserve the right to your own personal foreign policy and a right not to fight what you might imagine "unjust" wars, then you should not have enlisted. Wars are far too important to be entrusted to dissenters. Your pretense of speaking for "all" your fellow soldiers or even more than a handful of disgruntled types, is nauseating and an insult to military tradition.
OTOH, Paul is a rank disgrace and a phonycon as Al Qaeda's mouthpiece in Congress.
Nice try, though.
read later
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