Posted on 06/13/2009 10:20:17 PM PDT by newbie2008
No additional fossil fuel is needed to produce power at the proposed Beacon plant on Grange Hall Road near the intersection of routes 22 and 43. Instead, 200 flywheels -- each a rotating disk 7 feet tall and 3 feet wide -- will spin, using motors that draw excess energy from the power grid when it is not needed.
When demand for electricity increases, the flywheels -- sealed in a vacuum and floating on magnetic bearings to reduce friction -- can be switched to run generators that return power to the grid.
Because of an almost total lack of friction, the flywheels can spin out power for about a hour, meaning power plants won't have to increase capacity to meet demand.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesunion.com ...
If the flywheels are tied to a generator, there has to be some friction to get the generator going and keep it going. Even if it is pre-started.
Ok, so where’s the storage?
Don’t confuse the journalist with facts, please. Their brains tend to implode when confronted with the truth of anything.
It doesn't generate power, it just stores it. I like the idea, but I think superconductive storage may be better eventually.
And one more correction, of course it burns fuel, you have to use power to get the flywheels moving. It is only as "green" as the power source which is used to get the flywheels moving. Since utility companies use a mix of energy sources, which have varying costs and pollution emmisions, the strategy to use these would be to get the flywheels moving using the lowest cost, cleanest baseline generation, and tap the flywheels for power generation at the peak electricity use periods, instead of more costly or polluting extra generation capacity.
The storage is in the momentum. This isn’t the first one of these they’ve built. To me, it sounds more reliable, viable in certain places cheaper than batteries or pumped water storage
The spinning flywheel has "stored" Kinetic energy that can be used to do work, like turn a generator.
I really don't see how this saves any energy other than making the main generators not work so hard.
Nuther get sumpin for nuttin law of physiks.
Is the storage just 1 hour, e., the time of the freewheeling generative spins?
I’m sure the flywheels don’t “turn” a generator. They are surrounded by coils, and the flywheels themselves are the armatures of either a motor or a generator—depending on what the coils are connected to.
If you don’t think there’s much energy stored in a 7’X3’ flywheel, try stopping it with your hand. I’ll bet it would tear your arm off turning at much less than one r.p.m.
And I’ll bet they turn at at least 1000 RPM.
Also with electricity, I know that the turbines have to stay rotating at all times for a couple of reasons (at least on the turbines I've seen.) The shaft is so large that unless it's spinning, it can't support it's own weight and will warp. Also, it can take up to a day to get them up to speed.
So, the turbines are spinning anyway, but at times their capacity is greater than the need. Potential power is wasted. Using it to lift the weights stores a portion of the energy, although there is some loss due to inefficiency of any mechanical system.
That's how I understand it, but remember, I was an Art major.
It doesn’t save energy. It stores energy.
What it saves is building excess generating capacity that is needed for only a couple of short peak periods a day.
And apparently firing up excess generating capacity for an hour or two is very wasteful, except in the case of natural-gas-powered turbines.
Not exactly. Turbines (after cooling) rest in journal bearings of their own accord. They are put on turning gear prior to turning to roll out the eccentricity of the heavy rotor. It doesn't take up to a day to get them up to speed but may take a day to pre-warm turbine parts to prevent vibration problems due to metal temperature mis-match.
There are small flywheel storage setups to provide power “storage” for off grid, solar houses, as opposed to batteries or petrofuel generators. This isn’t new or controversial. The newness is in scaling it up.
I don’t know if it is the same company but about 5 years ago, someone was trying to do the same thing for satellites. With those, they would have an even number of flywheels rotating opposite in order to maintain net-zero angular momentum.
How much merit this idea may really have, I'm not sure, but it's not a good sign to pay money to a flack like Hull to grossly misrepresent the concept.
They smaller ones they built years ago were much faster than 1000 rpm. I think it may have been faster than 10,000 rpm. The flywheels were contained in a vault underground for safety purposes.
How much merit this idea may really have, I'm not sure, but it's not a good sign to pay money to a flack like Hull to grossly misrepresent the concept.
Wonder how the accommodation is made between the varying speed of spin of these huge flywheels and the fixed speed at which an AC generator needs to turn. Some sort of continuously variable transmission? How lossy are those at this scale?
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