Posted on 06/06/2009 6:24:20 AM PDT by Zakeet
I'm wary of drawing too many lessons from anonymous message board comments. One could certainly pluck comments from Beliefnet's boards to prove that we harbor either right wing or left wing extremists.
But it's worth perusing the message boards of FreeRepublic, a conservative community, to gauge the general mood of the most hardcore conservatives.
First, quite a few people are saying that murder is wrong, no matter how evil the victim was.
SnakeDoc:
Thou Shalt Not Murder. Both the shooter and the victim will be judged.Patriot preacher:
Pro-lifers should condemn this as antithetical to their philosophy and beliefs. Hopefully, the perpetrator will be apprehended and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. I will shed no tears that Teller is gone -- but MURDER is MURDER.
Then a large group is making a more practical argument that this was bad because it will backfire. In fact, a startling large number believe Tiller was murdered by Obama or pro-choice allies in order to justify a crackdown on guns or civil liberties:
upchuck:
This serial-killer piece of excrement will be held up by every abortionist and every lover of abortionists as the reason why the Secret Service needs to be assigned to guard every abortionist,every abortion mill and every lover of abortions in this country.gridlock:
Obama is going to take advantage of this murder to sieze even more control over our society. I would not even put it past them to commit this murder themselves, as an excuse to sieze power. Reichstag Fire, and all that...jazminerose:
Will form the rationalization for really stomping on pro life groups. Was it one of BO's storm troopers who pulled the trigger?
Then there's a large number of people who flat-out applaud the killing. I'm going to print a lot of them because it's really unfair to pluck a few extreme quotes off any websites message boards. What's amazing is the sheer volulme of people thinking this way:
imahawk:
One less nazi as far as I am concerned.Turret Gunner A20:
Hope the guy gets away....Do you think that it would have been murder to assignate Hitler? And don't say that the question has no relevance -- this crud was a leading the killer-of-innocents criminal thugs that has already killed throughout the world far more innocents that Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined. His killer did a great service when noone else would do it.calico_thompson:
Well, at least the perp didn't rip his arms and legs off and then suck his brains out.Gaffer:
No doubt this 'man' is responsible for thousands, maybe tens-of-thousands of needless and wanton deaths. If you think his 'passing' is a bad thing in the cause of speaking out and ending the practice of abortion, I don't know what to tell you. I can only say that I shall not mourn his demise, nor shall I judge others.TheDuke:
But, wasn't this just another late term abortion(?)Slump Tester:
It's too bad the suspect didn't poke a roto rooter through his skull and then suck him into a vacuum cleaner instead of just shooting the bastard.SampleMan:
Whether he will be judged as a murderer by God may be an open question, and none of us know the answer. In 1942 Reinhard Heydrich was killed in Prague in cold blood. Czech commandos committed what was by the law of the land murder. They were from a country that had surrendered and they were not in uniform. They did this because he was orchestrating the destruction of the Czech people. Did they kill a tyrant or commit murder or both? There is also the case of course of John Brown and slavery. Yes we must obey our laws, until we can no longer live with the result of not obeying them.babygene:
killing to prevent a serial killer from claiming his next victim probably doesn't fit into the category of murder...Cheetahcat:
Nothing to see here just his last abortion this one many trimesters Post Birth.Ahithophel:
He will till no more in the bloody garden of evisceration.UnwashedPeasant:
What kind of "church" was this? The Wright kind?steve86:
I guess the allies should not have killed a single Nazi soldier in WWII?eccentric:
It is not murder to kill someone to save someone else's life.353FMG:
The shooter had to kill in order to save the lives of numerous future children. If the shooter is considered a murderer, then so are our brave soldiers. They (the soldiers) have to kill in order to save our lives from the constant threat of terrorism.mrsmel:
It's too bad, when murderers on the left who really did target innocent people are rewarded and lauded. This man Tiller was responsible for the horrific deaths of thousands of innocent babies, and we are supposed to be shame-faced that someone stopped him in his tracks from jabbing scissors into yet another babies' head and sucking their life out.
and from another thread:
Canedawg:
i wouldnt feel too badly if some of the communists in our govt met a similar fate. That doesnt mean i am about to go around killing anyone, but if someone else does the deed, i wont be crying over the tainted blood of treasonous actors and infanticiders.Glenn:
How about rejoicing for all the children this "Doctor" will not murder now?Flintlock:
I tried to get upset about this.
I failed.
My bad, I guess.stockpirate:
God BLESS the man that killed Tiller.
It is time the left started to feel the wrath of conservatives.
There is a time for peace and a time for war.
Jesus said I came not to bring peace but a sword. Those who beat their swords into plows will plow for those who do not.
A people unwilling to use extreme violence to preserve their liberty deserve the tyrants that rule them. The two phrases are written over the doors of the Justice Department in DC, "Repression breeds violence" and "Where justice ends, tyranny begins"
Certainly the unborn are suffering under the boot of tyranny and are being repressed by the ungodly.
Rightous men have an obligation to change the wanton murder of the unborn.
A nation that allows the murder of the unborn deserves God's harsh judgement.
and this thread:
Lexington Green:
What goes around...newfreep:
Whatever "church" Tiller attends must be worshipping satan.IDRATHERNOT:
Tiller Shot & Killed? Thousands of unborn children claim self defense.wardaddy:
he reaped what he's sowed same as anyone so evilSloth:
*shrug* Genocide has consequences.The Sons of Liberty:
Shooting was too good for him. Too bad his body wasn't torn to pieces like his victims.
May he burn in hell for eternity.wardaddy:
This guy wa a monster period.
Did you cry when Dahmer got killed in the joint?
Would you worry about Manson?
nothing personal but ya'll are soft as butter.
I make no apologies whatsoever, folks here will be ill prepared for where we're headed.whatisthetruth:
I'm only surprised this didn't happen sooner, couldn't have happened to a better man, IMO.P-Marlowe:
If you TRULY believe that Abortion is murder, then you cannot condemn anyone who would do anything to stop this mass murderer from continuing in his crimes. This is where the rubber meets the road. If you call abortion murder, then this was justifiable homicide. If abortion is not murder, then Tiller was the victim of a heinous crime and his killer should be condemned.mjp:
Sometimes retaliatory force is necessary to stop initiation of force by those who are violating natural rights. Preservation of life and natural rights of the innocent is a natural duty that God requires.tips up:
If the killer just put scissors into his skull, it would be considered a late term abortion (60+ years late) and he would be a hero of the left, rather than a domestic terrorist.gscc:
I suppose if Hitler had been assassinated there would have been many "good" Germans who would have looked at the assassin as a "crazy". Let's face it - this country has lost it's soul. We live in a post-Judeo-Christian nation and it will only go down hill from here. There will certainly be many "good" Americans that lament the passing of this evil man. With a federal government, press and apostate "church" firmly entrenched in liberal secular theology we are witnessing the end of the founder's America.MichiganConservative:
It's abortion in the 272nd tri-mester (ROTFLMAO)
Post-extraction lead-induced termination.
You realize those are nearly contradictory, don't you, for those who have vigorously maintained that abortion is murder? Nuances balanced on a line as fine as the hair of a newborn.
If given Roeder's same opportunity to kill Tiller, would you have done likewise? If not, why not?
For those who have vigorously maintained that abortion is murder, they are complicit in Roeder’s act. Therefore, relief at Tiller’s death is the part that makes sense. Disagreeing with Roeder’s method is the part that does not GIVEN the proclamation that Tiller REALLY was a MURDERER.
later
But I'll ask you again because it's an important question -- If given Roeder's same opportunity to kill Tiller, would you have done likewise? If not, why not?
That is the bottom line. Certainly that is the sword which the abortionists will use to try to cut us to ribbons, but that is the sword upon which we placed our words.
Either we pretend our words mean nothing, or we own up to them. If we have claimed that Abortion is murder, then we cannot pretend that we are not going to be held to account for our words.
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned. (Matthew 12:36-37 KJV)
Those of you lurkers and posters who claim that ABORTION IS MURDER, but think you are not in some way culpable in the death of Tiller, are you just uttering IDLE WORDS?
Did you not mean then when you spoke them?
Now the question is, are those who called abortion "murder" going to be "justified" by Christ, or "condemned"? If you don't own up to them, if they are merely "IDLE WORDS", then I believe that your words will condemn you.
If you truly meant them and you truly believed them, then you ought not to feign offense when there are consequences (either good or bad) which flow from the utterance of those words. For whatever reason, good or bad, Roeder took those words to heart and acted (either rightly or wrongly) upon them. They were not uttered in a vacuum.
You will be held accountable. You will be justified in your words, or your words will condemn you. To keep silent is better, and spiritually safer, than to speak in idle platitudes.
“for those who have vigorously maintained that abortion is murder”
What a strange thing to say... Of course abortion in murder. Why wouldn’t people maintain such a fact. Are you suggesting it is not?
As for me, as a Christian, forgiving sort of guy; I’m willing to forgive both Tiller and Roeder one (one) murder.
Frankly I'm really surprised at your argument. Abortion is murder; I am happy Tiller no longer haunts this earth; and I am not culpable in the slightest for Tiller's death.
I'll ask you the same question I asked xzins. If given Roeder's same opportunity to kill Tiller, would you have done likewise? If not, why not?
God told Saul to kill the Amalekites. Would you have obeyed?
For one, I have not been called to that action. For another, maybe I don't really believe in my heart of hearts that it is "murder."
I will confess to my hypocrisy. I call it "murder," yet I and millions like me, stand around like the townsfolk of Auschwitz and pretend that smell coming from the forest is just rotten sewage.
If I believe it is murder, then I sure as hell haven't acted like it. 60,000 "murders" and I have just stood by watching American Idol and cooking shrimp on the Bar-B.
At least Roeder did something about it. He at least can say that he TRULY believed that abortion was murder, but I don't think I can.
Do you believe Abortion is murder? Will you wash your hands of your "idle words"?
A man would have to believe God had asked him to kill someone. It would be better if he knew God had given that task.
Does anyone know if Roeder believed that?
Of course, the man’s sanity would be questioned. But, that would be the case whether God had really spoken to him or not.
It would not surprise me if he did. One thing is for sure, a pro lifer did not do it. Common sense tells one that. If pro lifers killed abortion doctors abortion doctors would be on the endangered species list, if not extinct.
That is a clearly viable baby, isn’t it? I have a brand new grandson, and 24 hours before his birth he was still my grandson. 24 hours before the “law” says he’s legal abortion fodder, and 1 micro-second after his birth to murder him is a criminal offense.
I do not believe that God "spoke" to Roeder, but I do know that the Death of Tiller accomplished God's will.
I have a feeling that something very "good" will result from this supposed "evil". I had a thought a few minutes ago, that maybe the next Spurgeon, or the next Augustine, or the next Jonathan Edwards was scheduled to be aborted on June 1, 2009 and that because of what happened in that miserable excuse for a Church in Wichita, a great revival may be the ultimate result.
I wish I had a copy of the appointment book for June 1, 2009 at that accursed abortuary so I could follow the lives of those who were spared the fate that has befallen 60,000 unborn souls.
I would like to think that at least one of the lives that was spared by the death of George Tiller will be responsible in part for the salvation of 60,000 souls in the future.
Vengeance belongs to God.
And the comparison with Auschwitz is specious. I and plenty like me do all we can to draw attention to the blood crimes committed as satanic sacrifices by godless men. However, most Germans knew what was happening in the camps and kept their mouths shut because they agreed with what was going on in the camps.
You simply cannot defame the anti-abortion movement because it doesn't sanction murder. Any murder.
I don't believe for one second that the reason you don't take another man's life is because you're a "hypocrite." Your desire for retribution is understandable but God has restrained your anger.
Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head." -- Romans 12:19-20"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
We either believe that or not. Paul tells us God's justice is what matters and it will come inexorably and eternally. You will meet the faces of those dead babies in heaven, Marlowe, but Tiller most likely is burning as we speak.
And to comfort our sense of unfairness, Paul reminds us that the more we rely on God's perfect justice, the more coals we heap on Tiller's molding corpse.
I hate to mess up a beautiful day by getting involved in this discussion but I think we miss a larger principle when we focus on the abortion-murder question that the pro-abortionists want us to rather than the “violence begetting violence” principle; the cause and effect rules that God has built into the system.
Isa. 5:20, “Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
23 Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.”
Abortion and murder are just two sides of the same coin; both symptomatic of the devaluing of the image of God in man. The government bears responsibility here for taking bribes from the abortionist and appointing an Attorney General who refused to indict on the real charges and indicted on technicalities that the jury saw as ridiculous.
The people bear responsibility for opting for convenience and not passing laws to protect the most vulnerable in society and for voting out of office an Attorney General who was protecting the most vulnerable.
Prov. 29:2b, “but when the wicked beareth rule, the people mourn.” Here they mourn because their violence in encouraging the taking of innocent life caused another violence; murder.
The only way you can say that is if you don't believe that the deaths of the unborn is the same as the deaths of Jews and Gypsies.
However, most Germans knew what was happening in the camps and kept their mouths shut because they agreed with what was going on in the camps.
And how does that differ from the folks in Wichita? Apparently Tiller was highly regarded. People in his Lutheran church have spoken about how heaven is going to be a better place because Tiller is there now.
IMHO the current meltdown of our institutions in America is the result of the same judgment that befell Nazi Germany. When you have no respect for life, you will be soon visited by the Angel of Death.
Your desire for retribution is understandable but God has restrained your anger.
As usual you read me wrong. I have not once said that Roeder's actions would be just "retribution". His actions would only be just if he were attempting to save the lives of others. Retribution is the Lord's, indeed, but men are morally obligated to do what they can to stop evil.
If the intention of Roeder was to punish Tiller for his sins, then there is no justification for his actions at all. If his intention was to protect the lives that he knew would be snuffed out by this monster then next day, then there would be both moral and legal justification for his actions.
Thank you muaw, I appreciate the backup. Yes, that is exactly what burned my blood about Minn.
Minn, you don’t impress me and I’m not leaving on your account. Talk about murder, talk about tyranny, talk about stifling what I have to say or anyone else has to say. You can go to hell, I’m going to say what I have to say. Take your fascist friends with you and many of us would be only too happy. You suggested censorship, censor yourself, tough guy.
>> 24 hours before the “law” says he’s legal abortion fodder, and 1 micro-second after his birth to murder him is a criminal offense.
Not only is it legal to kill the fetus, people glorify and profit from the process of killing it - it is celebrated as a gift by some.
As a Country, and preferably as a species, we need to seriously reconsider the legality of killing unborn children. Abortion is not a choice, it’s a decision to kill.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.