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National Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look; Rahm Emanuel's brother advises 10% VAT...
Washington Post ^ | 5/27/2009 | Lori Montgomery

Posted on 05/27/2009 5:38:44 AM PDT by GreaterSwiss

With budget deficits soaring and President Obama pushing a trillion-dollar-plus expansion of health coverage, some Washington policymakers are taking a fresh look at a money-making idea long considered politically taboo: a national sales tax.

Common around the world, including in Europe, such a tax -- called a value-added tax, or VAT -- has not been seriously considered in the United States. But advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity.

At a White House conference earlier this year on the government's budget problems, a roomful of tax experts pleaded with Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner to consider a VAT. A recent flurry of books and papers on the subject is attracting genuine, if furtive, interest in Congress. And last month, after wrestling with the White House over the massive deficits projected under Obama's policies, the chairman of the Senate Budget Committee declared that a VAT should be part of the debate.

"There is a growing awareness of the need for fundamental tax reform," Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.) said in an interview. "I think a VAT and a high-end income tax have got to be on the table."

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: added; bigteapartyjuly4; donttreadonme; fairtax; lping; nationalsalestax; obama; rahm; salestax; tax; taxes; taxincreases; teapartytime; time2partyagain; value; vat
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To: pleikumud

I also want you to understand I am not saying the fair tax isn’t fairer, it may be, But it will never be implimented by anyone in government ever.


261 posted on 05/27/2009 11:11:26 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: Jim from C-Town

There is an extensive organization working on the fair tax. The bill has sponsors in the house and senate.

Where is the organization fighting for a flat tax? I can multi-task and be a part of both. Where do I sign up?


262 posted on 05/27/2009 11:15:34 AM PDT by listenhillary (Rahm Emmanuel slip - A crisis is a terrible thing to waste.)
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To: mojitojoe

I knew it was a lot. But it does mean that vote fraud is going to been wave of the future.


263 posted on 05/27/2009 11:18:28 AM PDT by Little Ray (Do we have a Plan B?)
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To: demoskowitz

I will take a VAT in a heartbeat if they do away with the Federal Tax. In fact, make the VAT 20 percent....but get rid of IRS and Federal Tax. I love the idea of a tax where people get to pick and chose when to pay the VAT. That is true freedom.


264 posted on 05/27/2009 11:19:14 AM PDT by napscoordinator
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To: demoskowitz

Vinyl-Asbestos Tile.


265 posted on 05/27/2009 11:28:27 AM PDT by rfp1234 (Phodopus campbelli: household ruler since July 2007.)
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To: Leisler; potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP; Jim Robinson; Interesting Times; ...



"...classic party of the rich, the investors class, the Republicans..."

George Soros
Bill Gates
NJ Governor Jon Corizine
NYC Mayor Bloomberg (any party for election)
Robert Rubin
Sen. Jay Rockefeller
Sen. Ted Kennedy
Sen. Diane Feinstein
Rep. Nancy Pelosi
Sen. Harmon
Sen. Kohl

8 of the 10 richest US Senators are democrats

Consider the huge amount Obama raised -

If you think Wall Street and corporations like General Electric are headed and dominated by Republicans - I invite you to now provide all of us dumb FReepers evidence of your incredible political brilliance.....

- (correct or edit me if I am wrong) -


- I have made mistakes and errors in judgement in my posts on Free Republic - But I don't tend to hold hands with McKinnon and Powell - I also correct any mistake I might have made




266 posted on 05/27/2009 11:38:36 AM PDT by devolve ( . . . . . . . . . Obama confiscated Teacher & Police Union pension funds? . . . . . . . . . . .)
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To: demoskowitz

See my tagline...


267 posted on 05/27/2009 11:51:15 AM PDT by Lucky9teen (Revolution Beckons......When is enough, ENOUGH?)
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To: Man50D
“Oh really? Tell that to the cosponsors of The Fair Tax Act whose numbers have increased with each session of Congress since The Fair Tax Act was first introduced since 1999.”

Really! The fact is that the fair tax will never get done. It doesn't matter how many sponsors the bill has now or 10 years ago. I assure you that 10, 20, 30, 100 years from now the Fair tax will still not be implemented.

I want you to understand I think the fair tax may be fairer, It may do everything they say it will do, it may be all sunshine and happiness, It doesn't make it reality.

The people sponsoring the Fair Tax are the same that can't muster enough votes to get any legislation passed. They are in the minority and have allot of work to get into the majority. I hope they can do it. I think it would be a good discussion for the congress to have. However, I am completely skeptical about it ever getting a real comity hearing much less getting to the floor for an up or down vote.

268 posted on 05/27/2009 11:53:30 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: Jim from C-Town

“I have read it it is unwieldy and will never be enacted. Period. It makes more sense to put your efforts into a plan that will actually get considered.”

If the flat tax is more politically viable than the FairTax, can you explain why every poll on tax reform that comes out now shows the FairTax preferred by margins of better than 5 to 1 over the flat tax? Also, why does the FairTax have more than 50 co-sponsors (more than 70 in the last session of congress) while you don’t see any flat tax bills with more than a half dozen or so? The flat taxers can’t even agree on a single bill that they support; if you ask 3 flat taxers to describe their version, you will more than likely get 3 different answers. Given those facts, do you want to revise which one you are calling unwieldy and unable to get implemented?

Last but certainly not least, this country is facing a number of adverse economic trends which are exacerbated by the current tax system, including:
1. the enormous trade deficit and the resulting loss of our manufacturing sector,
2. the federal budget deficit,
3. the chronically low personal savings rate,
4. the twin crises of SS & Medicare,
5. the ongoing spiral of increased complexity and higher compliance costs,
6. the AMT

In addition to having the current tax system as a major contributor, all of these trends have one other thing in common: they are all unsustainable. In each case, the FairTax addresses these trends more effectively than the FairTax does.

“The fight for tax reform is such a difficult battle politically that it doesn’t make sense to expend all the energy to prevail and come up with the wrong answer.”
Dick Armey

Mr. Armey is quite correct in that statement. What he doesn’t understand is that “the flat tax” is, indeed, “the wrong answer”.


269 posted on 05/27/2009 11:58:44 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: demoskowitz
advocates say few other options can generate the kind of money the nation will need to avert fiscal calamity

Sure, cut spending.
270 posted on 05/27/2009 12:06:16 PM PDT by BJClinton (One Big Ass Mistake America)
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To: phil_will1
No I don't want to revise my statement. Take it to the bank, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

I think it probably should be done, It should certainly be looked at and discussed. However, I still stand by the statement that it will never be implemented. Too many of the powerful would never let it get done. Certainly the entire Democrat caucus will reject it out of hand more than half the Republican caucus will do the same. Where will the 2/3 majority come from for the necessary Constitutional Amendment. Nowhere. IT AIN”T GUNNA HAPPEN!

271 posted on 05/27/2009 12:09:22 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: Jim from C-Town

“The fact is that the fair tax will never get done.”

That isn’t a fact, it’s an opinion. It may prove to be a correct opinion, but it’s still an opinion nevertheless.

Here’s my opinion. The economic forces are moving steadily towards forcing us to confront a horribly dysfunctional tax system. In addition to the trends I listed in my post above, there is another force which will prove to be one of the largest transformational trends in world history before it runs its course: globalization. Sooner or later, we will have to revisit all of our major institutions, especially the way we collect federal taxes. With globalization sweeping the planet and leading us to a day in which competition in the global marketplace exceeds anything we have ever experienced before, it is insane to maintain a tax system which handicaps our producers in that marketplace. We are on a path to a very bleak economic future if we do not recognize that a new day is dawning.

We may be able to educate enough Americans to the need for real fundamental tax reform before an economic crisis forces us to, or we may respond after the fact. I hope that it is the former, but I fear that it may be the latter. However, one way or the other, this is an issue that will be addressed sooner or later.


272 posted on 05/27/2009 12:12:16 PM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: demoskowitz

If I understand this right, the VAT is supposed to pay for health care. Even though we the people can’t afford the programs we have now.

That’s like DH and I deciding that we want/need/deserve a new SUV. Because everyone in this family has a right to more legroom, 4WD, etc.

Can’t afford it? Gotta save up? Yeah, in the real world.

The government just decides they want/need/deserve a new program and *whump* there it is.

Sheesh. What are they smoking up there in DC?


273 posted on 05/27/2009 12:29:35 PM PDT by Cloverfarm (Where are we going, and why are we in a hand-basket?)
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To: devolve

Have you seen any wealthy Republican come out and totally attack Obama with the support of the Democrat Media and Democrat Congress?

Not one.

Money before country.

Obama, Geithner, Paulson, Congress have sent a clear message, like Hitler to Krupp, Dr. Porsche, and other wealthy Germans, get on onboard or at least shut up....or else.

I suppose the secondary message is, that if you play ball with us and our coup de grace for our clean up of the last few bunkers of semi-free enterprise, you will be rewarded.
Resistance is futile.

And, that is why, the GOP is such a doormat. Because we are in a physical fight, and people are going to get crushed even if we win, and it isn’t going to be ‘our’ wealthy guys. (They’re on the sidelines, unless of course if we win.)


274 posted on 05/27/2009 12:40:17 PM PDT by Leisler ("It is terrible to contemplate how few politicians are hanged."~G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Jim from C-Town

About the Fair Tax you wrote: “This would be a boon to the black market. Who wouldn’t try to avoid this new abusively high tax. Not to mention the shenanigans in order to get more of a pre-bate. Talk about welfare queens, i can see 30-50% prebate fraud.

An entirely new bureaucracy will have to be made at the Federal level in order to compel companies, as well as individual states, to comply with this new system.”


What you have written above about the Fair Tax prebate system is wrong. Everyone will receive the prebates so there will be no need for means testing or income verification. Also, there will be no need for a new federal bureaucracy. The States will collect the sales taxes just as they do now, and forward the federal portion to Washington. The States will be compensated for their work, but that’s about it.

Go to www.fairtax.org for more information if you would like.


275 posted on 05/27/2009 12:47:59 PM PDT by pleikumud
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To: phil_will1

No, it’s a fact. AIN’T GUNNA HAPPEN! EVER, NO WAY, UH-UH, SORRY, THANKS FOR PLAYING, DON”T FORGET YOUR HOME EDITION.


276 posted on 05/27/2009 12:53:38 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: mad_as_he$$

Sounds like the PTB are gearing up for a fight.

CCII will be one hell of a war.


277 posted on 05/27/2009 12:57:56 PM PDT by wolfcreek ( The Republican Party shouldnÂ’t open itself like a whorehouse to new voters)
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To: phil_will1
“We may be able to educate enough Americans to the need for real fundamental tax reform before an economic crisis forces us to, or we may respond after the fact.”

52% of the country voted for an outright fraud and buffoon and you think a large enough % of the population can be educated to a new tax system?

Over 98% of all congressmen are reelected every cycle, they do not fear the populace. They have no incentive to change the system.

278 posted on 05/27/2009 12:59:24 PM PDT by Jim from C-Town
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To: 3catsanadog
No doubt about that. But... his BROTHER! Where does this guy come from? Do they all have government jobs nowadays?

I have a brother. Maybe he gets to dream up a kooky tax plan too?! I do NOT recall seeing Rahm's brother on the ballot last November...

279 posted on 05/27/2009 1:02:15 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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To: Leisler
I’m wondering when the tradesmen, the small businessmen, the workers, when we get to have our riot? Where is our Black Panther, our Liberation Front movement?

Be careful what you wish for. When this group blows, its bloody. Think American Revolution, French Revolution, Russian Revolution, German Revolution(s). The losers make noise and nobody cares. When the middle class finally blows up, people get hurt and governments fall. By the way, I spoke with madame Du Farge this morning. The scarf is almost finished.

280 posted on 05/27/2009 1:04:48 PM PDT by April Lexington (Study the constitution so you know what they are taking away!)
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