Posted on 05/26/2009 5:27:43 AM PDT by SJackson
If you’d like to be on or off, please FR mail me.
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In the late 1970’s I believe, in northern Portugal there were Crypto Jews who still practiced Judism behind closed doors at home while attending Mass on Sundays. I think they lived in Belmonte. Who knows, there might still be some today.
Portugal had a population of around one million back around the time of the Inquisition. A large number (anywhere between 100,000 to 700,000...nobody knows for sure) fled Spain into Portugal. Many eventually converted and blended in with society. It is a rare Portuguese who does not have Jewish blood in him or her.
Wonderful news. Israel needs all the help she can get.
“whose ancestors were forced to convert to
Catholicism”
No one was forced.
Unless you consider, “America: Love it or Leave It” to be “forcing” people to become patriots.
“Forced to convert to Catholicism” meant you had two choices. You converted or you died. Simple.
“America, Love it or leave it”. That is a statement of attitude only. There is absolutely NO force or compulsion behind it. Deep wish , maybe, that’s all. Just take note of the loud, angry cadre of “America Haters” making very lucrative livings from their “beliefs”
It is the “Haters” who would whine and wail the loudest if they WERE compelled to live in the countries they profess to admire so much.
>> “Forced to convert to Catholicism” meant you had two choices. You converted or you died. <<
But there was a third choice, namely, exile. That’s why there came to be a number of Spanish-speaking Jewish communities in places like Salonika.
Moreover, believe it or not, Franco’s government saved a few thousand of these Sephardic Jews from the Nazis during WW II when they were given retroactive Spanish citizenship.
(Granted that Franco could and should have saved many more Jews. But I’d opine that a few is better than none.)
The intent of the Inquisition was to purge the Iberian peninsula of the effects of 400 years of Islamic rule and Sharia law. Many of the so-called Jews were actually Muslims whose ancestors were Jews.
You are an idiot.
unbelievable responses on this thread.
Makes one understand leftist Jews alliance with anyone but Christians.
I suspect this is largely of the Roman Catholic teaching that preaches that the RCC was completely innocent in the inquisition -— you know, because the RCC only persecuted Roman Catholics (well, and any non-Roman Catholic Christian).
Ignore the step of “convert or die” or “convert or be expelled -— to nowhere, because there is almost nowhere to go.”
You know, because the “covert or die” were “political” not religious.
It’s disingenous and ignores the (then) status of the RCC as a polictical power.
Can't argue with you there, but should point out it's a conservative thing, "true conservatives", not the GOP. Unfortunately that message doesn't come out.
"According to surviving records, Jews helped the Arabs in many places. From Syria to Spain, they opened city gates to the besieging armies; and in Spain, they often garrisoned the captured cities to enable the Muslims to sweep on to further conquests. " The Jews of Arabia
"Jews on occasion helped Muslim troops against Christians (as in the initial Arab conquest of Spain) and some Jews held prominent positions in Muslim governments at war with the Christians. Even when they did not actually take part in the fighting, "Jews usually rejoiced when Christian territory fell into Islamic hands." The Jew As Ally of the Muslim: Medieval Roots of Anti-Semitism
Some Jews did, yes. As did some Roman Catholic Spanards.
Truth of the matter is the most of the Jews were loyal Spanards, immigrated long ago, made themselves rich and successful by hard work, but were considered “outsiders.”
A greedy totalitarian government, coupled with a corrupt church (at the time), with the help of kapos, decided to take their wealth by forcing them to “covert” (or effectively die), then proceeded to prosecute the forced converts (converts called “marranos” -— “pigs”) and take their money and land anyway.
Basic racism, 101.
I don’t hold this against the RCC or Spain; things happen.
I do hold it against bigots so blinded by their loyalty to their church to believe they did no wrong (an especially ironic move since the current pope was instrumental in exposing the evil that was the Inquisition and was on the team that set out to get an official apology issued and a retraction of certain decress).
Exactly, convert or get the h*ll out. Conservative though perhaps, but un-American through and through. If that's conservatism, it's a clearly bigoted ideology which has no place in the United States.
Really burns you deep down that Israel is doing this, doesn't it.
Largely irrelevant whether it was the Church or religiously motivated monarchs. To the victims, who apparently deserved what they got.
The 15th century Spanish evaluated events according to their own culture. It was that group that won the war in their own country. As winners they determined the terms of surrender. It’s obvious they considered other religious/cultural beliefs as harmful to a new nation. It doesn’t look like racism to me for a country to be willing to call individuals identified as former subjugators, fellow countrymen. This is the opposite of racism.
“un-American through and through”
Exactly, we aren’t talking about the USA. Other countries and other times have/had other cultures.
It’s true and completely out of context. The Vandal states, Arian and Catholic, gave Jews (who lived their for centuries before the Vandals invaded) the choice of conversion or death.
Like dissident Christians (Catholics in Arian states and Arianists in Catholic states), Jews saw the Moors as liberators and did not resist. Not that the later Moors were tolerant. The Almoyed dynasty were brital to Christians, Jews, and dissident Muslims.
But Catholic Spaniards invented a myth to help their reconquista. OF course, today we have nominal Catholic Spaniards inviting in Muslims.
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