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104,366 Reasons the U.S. Never Need Apologize to Europe
The Strategy Page.Com ^

Posted on 05/22/2009 5:39:07 PM PDT by llevrok

In alphabetical order U.S. Military European Cemeteries:

Copyright limits posting. Photos at link.

Never Forget.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: memorialday
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To: eyedigress

ping to #41. I should have pinged you since I jumped in here.


41 posted on 05/23/2009 7:47:53 AM PDT by GreyMountainReagan (Liberals do not view the book 1984 as a warning but as a textbook.)
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To: GreyMountainReagan

i appologize because it looks like i have misunderstood you.
i wasn´t aware that you talked about “europe” mostly on political basis and not about the people who are living there.
In a political point of view you are correct “Europe” lets call it the EU (because i guess this is more fitting) is indeed a rival of the US on global stage. But it´s a US “friendly” rival and shure will not become an true enemy.
Not even likely because “we” are culturally and economically way too close tied to each other. And even if i would not consider the US and EU true allies i think there are sill too many common interessts which “both sides” share to become something like enemys.btw. States do not have friends, only people have friends. States have common interessts or not and they act this way. so does the EU sometimes actively oppose the US if it´s in their personal interest? definitely! so does the US the other way around. this is how politics is played around the globe, not nice but the world we are living. every one trys to grab as much power and influence on global stage as he can get. Let me ask you a question. you said...
“when has Europe taken a difficult, unpopular stand in the world? Have they against Russian energy? Israel?, Iran? Hell no....”

why should the EU act this way if it´s not in it´s personal interesst?
btw. i would not call the EU as one of the biggest Israel supporters.
For Russia it´s simple “we” just need their gas and make a lot of money because of trade. Iran? same simple buisness reason... For example Iran is an enemy of Israel (and from a cold geo political point of view Israel is not relevant for EU buisness interests) and maybe the US (but no “real” danger for the US)... true, but it is allso an important trade partner of the EU.
But this doesn´t make the EU and US enemys, it only shows different personal interesst on this issues.

But again this is global politics. this has little to nothing to do with personal feelings between people from europe or the US for example.

Does Europe want to be free?

Well i don´t understand your question?
What do you mean when talking about freedom?
most european (and all EU) countries are democracys so in theory every one living here is as free as at least 51% of the voters want you to be same as the US. there is nothing like total freedom. it´s true that the “personal” freedoms differ sometimes between the US and european countries but at the end who is more free when there exists nothing like total freedom?

“.....Honest question: Is their a European dominated website similar to FR? If so I would love to visit it and contribute....”

Well i´m really not aware that something like a “european” dominated version of FR exists. But i guess this is more about the fact because of the different languages in europe. So i guess most people tend to hang around on local message boards of their own language.

greetings


42 posted on 05/23/2009 9:11:08 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Jonny foreigner

“btw. i would not call the EU as one of the biggest Israel supporters.”

Gee, ya think?

You illustrate my point exactly. The unpopolar, difficult stand is to support Israel. As you I would not call the EU one of Israel’s supporters. The EU would destroy Israel if it could.


43 posted on 05/23/2009 9:15:46 AM PDT by GreyMountainReagan (Liberals do not view the book 1984 as a warning but as a textbook.)
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To: GreyMountainReagan

The unpopolar, difficult stand is to support Israel. As you I would not call the EU one of Israel’s supporters. The EU would destroy Israel if it could.


No the EU would not destroy Israel if it could! it only doesn´t support Israel very much that´s all. Again why should the EU? this would really be unpopular because there is really nothing and i mean nothing to gain because of that but much to lose. As said before Israel is not very important for EU interests in this region (but other countries are). Nor would this “support” be backed by the most people here living in europe.


44 posted on 05/23/2009 9:31:53 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Jonny foreigner
You are probably correct that young Europeans don't appreciate what was done for them during the war.

Here is a picture of collapsed German bunkers and shell holes at Pointe du Hoc in Normandy. I got goosebumps thinking about the American troops that stormed this place from the beach below in the successful effort to rid Europe of the Nazi scourge.


45 posted on 05/23/2009 10:15:52 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: llevrok

As far as this GI is concerned, not one stinking Eurowinnie or Englishman is worth the lift of one American soldier. Once maybe, BUT no longer. The Euro’s are no different than our communist liberals here. They don’t want or need us unless their nest egg is in trouble. Only then do they cry for our help. Otherwise, cut our benefits, screw us in the ground, crap on us.


46 posted on 05/23/2009 10:18:39 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (Right wing military retiree. Proudly on DHLS hit list!!!!!)
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To: Jonny foreigner

Try sticking it up your ass and stay in Eurowinnie country pal. I don’t and we don’t need your crap! If it were not for us, you ass holes would be Nazi’s or Soviet styled communists. We pulled your asses out of two wars. As far as I am concerned, we should have stayed here and let you rot with Hitler.


47 posted on 05/23/2009 10:22:08 AM PDT by RetiredArmy (Right wing military retiree. Proudly on DHLS hit list!!!!!)
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To: RetiredArmy

Try sticking it up your ass and stay in Eurowinnie country pal. I don’t and we don’t need your crap! If it were not for us, you ass holes would be Nazi’s or Soviet styled communists. We pulled your asses out of two wars....


yeah wathever... bring your blood pressure back to normal or please stop commenting my posts because i have no interest to talk to people like you. i´m here to discuss with people. so untill you don´t manage to bring up a valid argument instead of pointless insults please don´t waste my time any longer.


48 posted on 05/23/2009 10:34:52 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Jonny foreigner

“No the EU would not destroy Israel if it could! it only doesn´t support Israel very much that´s all. Again why should the EU?........Nor would this “support” be backed by the most people here living in europe.”

You keep validating some of the problems of Europe.

Do you think the US really benefits from supporting Israel? Of course not. But we do anyway, because it is the right thing to do. Jews have been killed by europeans throughout history. I am not just talking about Germany, I am talking about Russia, Poland, France, Spain. The whole lot. The anti-semitism in europe really is not disguised at all.

I don’t want to hijack this thread with Holocaust issues I only bring up the Jews to illustrate the European mentality.

Why do you think America’s forefathers left that hell-hole? They wanted Freedom. Didn’t want to be oppressed. Jews should have left with us.

As always Europe only does what is good for itself, and nothing more. If europe can get the USA to spend its lives and treasure in defense of europe it will let it happen but when europe is called upon to help others well then that is when europe says, ‘screw you.’


49 posted on 05/23/2009 10:55:28 AM PDT by GreyMountainReagan (Liberals do not view the book 1984 as a warning but as a textbook.)
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To: rustbucket

You are probably correct that young Europeans don’t appreciate what was done for them during the war...


while really true this is really a difficult topic to discuss for especially for young “europeans”. First it´s hard to be “gratefull” for things that happend long before you or even your parrents have been born. i´m shure there are people left who have lived in this time who are gratefull because of that (i mean they shure appreciate the doings of the people of this time who actually fought for them). but since this is “europe” this is even more complex. you have to rember that not all europeans fought on the same side back in 1945. so take my country for example my ancestors (btw. i have never talked to one who has fought in personal) have been the “enemy” means that on your pic they where busy sitting in those bunkers shooting at the allied troops... so am i gratefull that i never have lived in this horrible times? yes definitely. do i regret that “we” lost this war? well after watching the history channel defintely no because i don´t want to be born in something like nazi germany. should i be gratefull and thank the allied for firebombing “my” city and killing my ancestors? i hope you get my point... it´s a little bit difficult here in Europe. So a general view here in europe is. This have been horrible times. STOP. as we now can all see it was totaly useless. STOP (even more useless because of the fact that most of the borders the people of this time have fought for have been voluntary erased long time ago (they only exist on paper anymore) so more or less most people died for “nothing” from a 2009 point of view). NEVER AGAIN. STOP
greetings


50 posted on 05/23/2009 11:12:41 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Jonny foreigner
So a general view here in europe is. This have been horrible times. STOP. as we now can all see it was totaly useless. STOP (even more useless because of the fact that most of the borders the people of this time have fought for have been voluntary erased long time ago (they only exist on paper anymore) so more or less most people died for “nothing” from a 2009 point of view). NEVER AGAIN. STOP greetings

That is an interesting perspective. Thank you. I wonder if those who have that general view also think it made no difference which side won the war.

Last summer I visited some cousins who lived in Normandy and Paris during the war. They don't share that general view you report but were grateful for the sacrifices made by others for their freedom. They experienced the war and the occupation personally, so it is understandable they might not feel the same about it as people who did not.

should i be gratefull and thank the allied for firebombing “my” city and killing my ancestors? i hope you get my point... it´s a little bit difficult here in Europe.

I understand your point very well. Should I be grateful that General Sherman's Northern troops killed one of my great-great-grandfathers during the American Civil War? Probably not.

51 posted on 05/23/2009 11:39:24 AM PDT by rustbucket
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To: GreyMountainReagan

Do you think the US really benefits from supporting Israel? Of course not. But we do anyway, because it is the right thing to do. Jews have been killed by europeans throughout history...........


no i don´t think that the US benefits from supporting Israel. it indeed has done more harm then good to your country. this is why it´s a miracle to me why the US still supports Israel. For the jews. Well while posting i´m sitting right now in of the “hearts” of anti-semitism during WW2. but i guarantee you that anti-semitism while really existed back then is no longer existent here in general (of course if you would dig far enought you will find some really very very few idiots like in every other country who still hate jews just for beeing jews) i guess maybe 0,1% of the total population.) but most people who have something against the state of Israel have really nothing against jews. really! For example there are jews living here and no one cares. they are viewed (if noticed) as standart citizen just like every one else (btw. many jews here in europe are not the biggest fans of Israel itself and critize Israel a lot).

.....If europe can get the USA to spend its lives and treasure in defense of europe it will let it happen but when europe is called upon to help others well then that is when europe says, ‘screw you....

Tell this to the european soldiers who die in afghanistan because of 9/11.
and btw. it´s true that “europe” does not want to get involved in any crisis or war if “we” can avoid it by any chance but given “our” history does this really suprise you?


52 posted on 05/23/2009 11:54:47 AM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Jonny foreigner

“´s true that “europe” does not want to get involved in any crisis or war if “we” can avoid it by any chance but given “our” history does this really suprise you?”

Doesn’t surprise me at all. I would be floored if Europe as a whole thought anything was worth fighting for.


53 posted on 05/23/2009 12:00:31 PM PDT by GreyMountainReagan (Liberals do not view the book 1984 as a warning but as a textbook.)
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To: rustbucket

That is an interesting perspective. Thank you. I wonder if those who have that general view also think it made no difference which side won the war.

Last summer I visited some cousins who lived in Normandy and Paris during the war. They don’t share that general view you report but were grateful for the sacrifices made by others for their freedom. They experienced the war and the occupation personally, so it is understandable they might not feel the same about it as people who did not.


No problem. i enjoy talking to you. well as said before i have this generall view and if i look back i´m glad that “we” lost this war. at least it turned out the way that my country “austria” now is a wonderfull place to live(of course i would be more glad if this whole war could have been avoided but anyway..) but usually it´s hard to say in 2009 how the world would have looked liked right now if the nazis had won (maybe the world would have changend anyway just years later, who knows?)... so i guess we will never know if this was the “perfekt” solution. but i do know that i don´t wanna live in a country or a system that introduced industrialized killing of million people...
and as you said it´s understandable that people like your cousins in the normandy who have felt the occupation in personal have a different view.
greetings


54 posted on 05/23/2009 12:33:56 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: GreyMountainReagan

Doesn’t surprise me at all. I would be floored if Europe as a whole thought anything was worth fighting for.


hey come on. Europeans have fought 2 devastating world wars on “our” own continent against each other. which has left most of our cities in ruins and millions of dead people. and you are wondering why most people here don´t wanna get involved in any kind of war? there are still tons of bombs buried in most major european cities because of that. why do you think the EU was founded? to be a rival of the US on global stage? while now maybe true this has never been the intention. the goal was no more war in europe between our contries. so the EU may be rotten from inside right now and has many failures but this important goal was reached so it was worth it at all at the end. has Europe become to “soft”? yes maybe but it has been the only way to erase this constant war threat in europe back then. will europe ever be a soft power? well i don´t think so but the same way it took time to become this it will take time to build up some will and the needed military power again to face the problems in our not so peacefull world outside of the EU. so before you call every european a sissy please look at the different history of the US and the EU. this will explain a lot of the “standart” EU politics.


55 posted on 05/23/2009 12:59:56 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: GreyMountainReagan; Jonny foreigner

For someone that has such a shallow and convoluted view of history I have no argument. I know if some country’s military allied with mine and came to my shores to protect her, I would be forever grateful.


56 posted on 05/23/2009 1:03:56 PM PDT by eyedigress
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To: Jonny foreigner

The more I read of your post the more I know that you and I would get along.

That still doesn’t negate the fact that Europe is not a defender of freedom. America is heading that way under 0bama

See you around on FR and if you are ever in Western America look me up.

Unless you are an 0bama supporter.

Later.


57 posted on 05/23/2009 1:17:23 PM PDT by GreyMountainReagan (Liberals do not view the book 1984 as a warning but as a textbook.)
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To: eyedigress

For someone that has such a shallow and convoluted view of history I have no argument. I know if some country’s military allied with mine and came to my shores to protect her, I would be forever grateful.


me to but simple has never happened during my lifetime.


58 posted on 05/23/2009 1:17:49 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: GreyMountainReagan

The more I read of your post the more I know that you and I would get along....


quite possible or better even likely :-)
if i plan to visit the western US in future i will send you a ping here on FR before. should you every visit the home town of the (i guess not so popular anymore) “governator” of california :-) (city of graz) contact me i will pay the drinks.
greetings


59 posted on 05/23/2009 1:35:17 PM PDT by Jonny foreigner
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To: Jonny foreigner
I don't care who you want to talk too Eurowinnie. This is an American site. If you don't give a rat about Americans, stay on your own sites. We have made it fine without you all these 200 plus years, and can do fine without your holier than thou attitude. Take your socialist mind and keep it in Eurowinnie land pal. Cowards like you are why the world is in a stink. You all talk the big talk, but when it comes to protecting your silly butts, you all, in the end, call 9-1-1-USA for protection.
60 posted on 05/23/2009 2:05:20 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (Right wing military retiree. Proudly on DHLS hit list!!!!!)
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