THE POPE STANDS UP (and walks out on Palestinian leader Sheikh Taysir al-Tamimi)

NY Post ^ | May 12, 2009

[presidio9]

In an action that spoke far louder than words, Pope Benedict yesterday walked out of an interfaith meeting in Jerusalem after the chief Islamic judge of the Palestinian Authority launched into an anti-Israeli diatribe.

The pontiff, on his first day in Jerusalem, did not realize at first that Sheikh Taysir al-Tamimi, speaking in Arabic, was condemning the "crimes of the Jewish state" and accusing Israel of having "slaughtered women, children and senior citizens."

But as soon as he was told the nature of the sheikh's tirade, he stood and left the meeting, which took place at Notre Dame church, before it had concluded.

It's not as if the organizers shouldn't have seen this coming: Back in 2000, Tamimi did the same thing during a visit by the late Pope John Paul II.

A spokesman for the Holy See later condemned the remarks, saying that

[MarkBsnr]

***As long as this thread survives...***

A resurrection.

[pillut48]

Really? I always understood the Vatican was a country unto itself. I never realized it belonged to Italy. Interesting.

[Running On Empty]

Thanks, Opus

[WVKayaker]

...So you claim that your interpretation of Paul is correct and Jesus is wrong?

No, Mark. I never claimed that, as you know. You consistently MISINTERPRET or MISSTATE my posts by ignoring the salient points and nursing onto your church's position. That is exactly why I have posted SCRIPTURE to make my points. I have already reviewed many of your churches position papers, and obviously rejected them as false according to Scripture.

Your post here is a prime example. Your position (that of your beloved Vatican) is at odds with Scripture, not me. It endorses those Scriptures that seem to align their point-of-view concerning their teachings, and ignore those little Pauline additions which go against their game, a game of bondage.

You can howl at me all you wish, but obviously can't refute the Scriptural Truths presented. Your postings from your catechism haven't swayed anyone. They have surely made some Roman Catholics happy, as they have stated. Yet, there is still nothing to REFUTE Paul.

Of course you want to deflect away from my message. I understand, PERFECTLY...

The Jews have been around a lot longer than your organization. The writings concerning Law and the Prophets originated from their scribes and were translated into Latin and other dead languages. The writings of the New Testament wrote largely in Greek. It was the common language of that day's educated people. We don't use Hebrew, Greek, or Latin in our daily lives, so God has been gracious to give us an interpretation of those dead languages.

I use the New International version for most of my postings. It is very true to the meanings of the original texts available. You may disagree with me, but their scholarship is clear and concise. It conveys the meaning of the Word in understandable language. I also believe these men were guided by the Spirit of God.

But, the one thing that none of these writings can do, is bring it to life. It takes the Holy Spirit of God to do that. Without Him, it is empty words on a page. Without Him, there is no life to claim!

I will continue to post Scripture in my responses. You may denigrate it and me, as you have. But, I will trust that same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead to illuminate those Words, and pierce those hearts willing to hear from Him! They are the Good News, the Gospel of Christ. They set us free from the penalties of sin. They guarantee us eternal life.

It isn't found in a building, nor available from a man on earth. It won't be found in fancy trappings, nor golden idols. It won't be found in religion, it will be found in our relationship with Christ.

Scripture teaches us that that is our relationship with God is an individual thing, not governed from a mighty temple built by men, by an elegantly costumed man, carrying a gilded, bejeweled scepter with a graven idol of our Lord, still crucified (the very thing you allegedly abhor, an IDOL, a graven image).

I will continue to serve the Lord. It is in Him that I place my life, and no, I am not concerned about the approvals of Rome. There's a much better promise outside the Vatican walls...

John 3: 10"You are Israel's teacher," said Jesus, "and do you not understand these things? 11I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony. 12I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things? 13No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man. 14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.

16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God." ...

...

Romans 8: ... 28And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

31What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,[m] neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. - with Love, Jesus and Paul

-Luke 10:

If the art was sold, it would be locked up in a private collection never to be seen again. -opus

20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy."

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." -Love, Jesus 22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great

[Petronski]

That is exactly why I have posted SCRIPTURE to make my points.

This has been an abject failure, as Scripture does not make YOUR points at all.

[Petronski]

It won't be found in religion, it will be found in our relationship with Christ.

religion - n. 1. 1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

--Houghton Mifflin Dictionary

[WVKayaker]

Satan believes. Is he religious?

[Running On Empty]

You overlooked “reverence”.

[WVKayaker]

Good morning. Good to see another post from you.

A relationship is not the same, FRiend. There are thousands of religions all over the world. But, Jesus made it clear he wasn't talking to religious people.He was speaking to sinners...

...

John 14: 23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

...

Romans 14: 1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. 8If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written:
" 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord,
'every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will confess to God.' " 12So then,
each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.-with Love, Jesus and Paul

[MarkBsnr]

***...So you claim that your interpretation of Paul is correct and Jesus is wrong?

No, Mark. I never claimed that, as you know.***

Here’s what this thread shows: you post snippets of Paul and I post the Gospel which contradicts your interpretation of what Paul says.

***You consistently MISINTERPRET or MISSTATE my posts by ignoring the salient points and nursing onto your church’s position.***

Nope. I read your postings and I give the Gospel position on the matter. The example that you posted above about Paul’s telling us that all men who call on the name of the Lord will be saved and I reminded you that Jesus says that NOT all men who say Lord, Lord will be saved is a good case in point. It is Jesus that contradicts you.

***I have already reviewed many of your churches position papers, and obviously rejected them as false according to Scripture.***

Scripture proscribes private interpretation, which is what you are doing.

***It endorses those Scriptures that seem to align their point-of-view concerning their teachings, and ignore those little Pauline additions which go against their game, a game of bondage.***

Your first admission that you are in fact not Christian and do not approach theology with a Christian mindset. We concentrate on the message of Jesus. Not the misinterpretations of Paul.

***You can howl at me all you wish,***

I do not howl.

***but obviously can’t refute the Scriptural Truths presented.***

I post regularly from the Gospels. There is no higher truth.

***Your postings from your catechism haven’t swayed anyone.***

How many postings have I made to you from the Catechism?

***Yet, there is still nothing to REFUTE Paul. ***

We do not refute Paul. We reject the modernistic non Christian interpretations of Paul from the descendents of the Reformation who have an abysmal lack of understanding of their theological development. Paul is worthy of great reverence, which we give to him. But we read his works according to how he wrote them; we do not create fantastic theologies from misinterpretations of Paul.

***I will continue to post Scripture in my responses. ***

Try the Gospels. It may lead you to Christ.

***You may denigrate it and me, as you have. ***

When have I ever denegrated Scriptures or the Gospels? Prove this accusation right now.

***Scripture teaches us that that is our relationship with God is an individual thing***

Jesus teaches us that He created a Church for us to instruct us and guide us and He proscribes us from private interpretation. We are to go to the Church, not to concoct private theologies. Can you prove your statement here from the Gospels?

***I will continue to serve the Lord.***

On the evidence that you have posted, you seem to serve only yourself justified upon misinterpretations of Paul. Your lack of Gospel posting is noted.

[WVKayaker]

...you post snippets of Paul and I post the Gospel which contradicts your interpretation of what Paul says.

...Jesus teaches us that He created a Church for us to instruct us and guide us and He proscribes us from private interpretation. We are to go to the Church, not to concoct private theologies. Can you prove your statement here from the Gospels?

I have already proven it several times over. You have rejected what I posted and what Paul has to say about it.I have included plenty of quotes from the "Gospels", but they don't help your case.

Now, I will repeat this for your edification...

John 14: 23Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25"All this I have spoken while still with you. 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

He is risen!

I don't mind repeating it!

[Petronski]

26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

You are describing the Catholic Church.

[WVKayaker]

John 14: 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

You are describing the Catholic Church.

So, Pete, do you actually believe that the Catholic church is the Holy Spirit?

[Petronski]

Satan believes.

Did you even READ what I posted?

"...a belief in AND reverence for..."

Do you believe Satan has a reverence for God?

[Petronski]

Prove this accusation right now.

Yeah, sure, right.

LOL

[WVKayaker]

John 14: 26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

You are describing the Catholic Church.

So, Pete, do you actually believe that the Catholic church is the Holy Spirit?

[Petronski]

So, Pete, do you actually believe that the Catholic Church is the Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit guides and protects the Catholic Church to this day, just as Christ promised, boy.

[WVKayaker]

Hello, is there no response? John 14: 6(Greek) (from Vatican library)

26ο δε παρακλητος το πνευμα το αγιον ο πεμψει ο πατηρ εν τω ονοματι μου εκεινος υμας διδαξει παντα και υπομνησει υμας παντα α ειπον υμιν

There, no interpretation required!

[WVKayaker]

26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

You are describing the Catholic Church. (- Pete)

3,052 posted on Sat Jun 6 11:12:54 2009 by Petronski

The Holy Spirit guides and protects the Catholic Church to this day, just as Christ promised, boy.

That is not what you stated, liar (once again proven).

John 15: John 15 The Vine and the Branches 1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

Jesus is the vine! He tells us we are already clean because of His Word... nothing else, including your Pope!

[WVKayaker]

Nice to see that you post these excerpts out of context, as you do Scripture in order to support the rather fantastic theology that you are peddling.

Yes, my vision of God differs a great deal from your version. I am sure it seems fantastic to you.

...

John 14: 15"If you love me, you will obey what I command. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— 17the Spirit of truth. ...

John 15: ...5"I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you. 8This is to my Father's glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

...

Romans 3: 19Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement,[i] through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished— 26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.

- Love, Jesus and Paul