Posted on 05/05/2009 3:40:36 PM PDT by marktwain
Where to begin.....
I OC everywhere I can legally do so, and when my brother said he wanted to buy some bricks for a yard project I found no illegality about carrying to Menards as it did not fall under any of the carry restrictions in Wisconsin, AND it met all the criteria I had set forth for places I would be willing to go armed, private property with an entrance from their parking lot.
I grabbed my firearm and unloaded and encased it in the truck, my brother drove to Menards. I loaded and holstered the firearm, then entered the store looking for "no guns" signs as we always do when I’m armed (I will not patronize any business with such a sign). As we enter some employee get a little too close for comfort and I get a good look at him, he’s eyeing my firearm. He turns around and hurries away. I go about my business looking for bricks and river rocks for the yard project. As we find them and start loading them into a cart about 5 employees make a circle around me and my brother. The following is my recollection of the dialog as I wrote it down on that day after getting home.
Guy B asks: Is that a real gun?
Me: Yes it is.
Guy B asks: Do you have a permit for that?
Me: I do not.
Guy B: You need to have a permit.
Me: I do not.
Guy A(manager): Can you put it in your car and come back to finish your purchase?
Me: I wouldn’t be comfortable with that, someone might steal it.
Guy A: I am going to have to ask you to leave or I’ll be forced to call the cops.
Me: Is that the stores policy?
Guy A: It is.
I tell my brother to give me the keys and ask Guy A: Can someone help my brother bring these bricks out to the truck, they’re kind of heavy.
Guy A: Sure, sure. (He is gesturing to one of the silent employees standing by as I turn around and walk calmly out of the store)
I get to the truck and un-holster, unload and encase the firearm. I then sit in the truck for another five to ten minutes while my brother finishes the purchase we went to make. He finally comes out with an employee and I get out of the truck to help load stuff into the back of the truck. There are about 3 bricks left when I see the patrol cars coming from the left and the right. This is my recollection of what was said between me and the officers. The officers version in the police report differs from mine, made me realize I need to have my recorder always on or I run the risk of having a he said she said situation with a police officer and his report.
Officer Donovan: Who has the holster? (He’s on my weak side and cannot see the empty holster on my right thigh) Seemingly noticing my brother does not have a holster he asks me less than a foot from my face (his breath smelled horrible): Why are you carrying a holster? (he did say carrying not wearing)
Me: Cause I carry a sidearm.
Donovan: Why do you carry a sidearm?
Me: To protect myself.
Donovan: Protect yourself from what?
Me: I don’t have to answer that. (Donovan is now pissed; he pauses for a moment in his agitation)
Me: Am I breaking a law?
Donovan: Yeah, you’re not allowed to carry a “sidearm”(he might have said gun or pistol, the world flipped on me at the start of his sentence and I forgot the exact word)
Me: What law is that?
Donovan: Oh, you wanna be a smart ass, you’re under arrest.
I put my hands behind my back before he even asks me to. I refuse to give consent to a search of the truck so they order my brother to retrieve it. When I tell my brother not to Donovan tells me they had a right to search the vehicle because I was under arrest. They get the keys out of my pocket and give them to my brother. He opens the truck, gets my case and gives it to them. They open the case, see the firearm and chuckle (I don’t know why but the image is stuck in my head).
They remove my holster from my leg and pat me down. Then they take me to a cruiser and pat me down again but this time Donovan hits me in the gonads (probably because he’s an ……, but more than likely given the size of his spectacles I’m guessing he has really bad depth perception, either way it hurt). They try to ask me a question and I ask: I am under arrest right? Officers: Yeah. Me: Then I have the right to remain silent.
In the cruiser the other officer Krafcheck, tries starting the good cop dialog (the bad cop is obviously the bad cop). He actually says I was only being taken to the station because I wouldn’t answer their questions. WTF! Either way I do not speak a word until after processing and the Miranda warnings (kind of late considering all the questions they were asking before would be inadmissible since they had not notified me of my Miranda rights sooner). When we walked into the processing room I get patted down again and handcuffed to a pole on a bench a child couldn’t sit on. I am informed I am being charged with disorderly conduct while armed, and they proceed to book me. They take my SSN, go thru all my papers and pictures in my wallet (sterile carry REALLY has something going for it), take my fingerprints and mug shot. Then after all that and forcing me to sign my fingerprints with the promise of time in jail if I did not comply(same with SSN) they read me my rights and I say I do not wish to answer ANY questions and I would like an attorney. They pat me down yet again and put me in a room but do not handcuff me this time. I sit there for about 3 minutes and have to sign another paper saying I will appear before a DA on May 20th, 2008 at 1:30PM. Then I am lead out a door different from the one I entered from and there is my brother waiting for me. Officer Krafcheck gives me a copy of the paper I just signed and says I’m free to go. I ask for my stuff and he refuses, I ask for a receipt and he refuses and tells me to get going, pointing at the door.
On the 20th of May I go to the charging conference, in which a problem arises because the first DA that read the case didn’t think it was disorderly conduct but he wasn’t going to let it go because it was a weapons case, so he passed it on and the next did the same thing. It even got to DDAs and they couldn’t say it was DC, but they still would not drop it. By the time a DA said it was disorderly conduct a lot of DAs were involved in the case ad they did not agree. They went to this little courtroom across the hall and had a 10 minute argument in front of a judge. I don’t know what was said, but afterwards the DA asked me a couple of questions in the hall, to which I replied with simple answers ie Why did you go to menards armed? Answer: to buy bricks. He refused to return the firearm after that, and stated “You can either choose to be charged or return on June 4th.
I showed up on June 4th only so that the DA could avoid us all day and lie to my attorney promising a decision by the afternoon, it did not happen. I learned a few days later they were planning on staffing the decision, which either did not happen or they didn’t make a decision by staffing it either. At this point I lost all hope in settling this before it got long. I filed my petition on June 18th, 2008.
On July 2nd, 2008 I received the date of the hearing and instructions to serve certain individuals in West Milwaukee; I served them in person on july17th, 2008. Due to certain individuals and tactics being used on the boards it was suggested I request the thread closed until the conclusion of the case, the argument was valid and I proceeded to ask jpierce to close the thread and keep a solid case from falling apart.
The hearing was supposed to be on November 21st, 2008 but it was adjourned until after Vegas case on December 16th 2008. The next date was March 20th, 2009. I won. No members of OCDO were there, some had emergencies, others couldn’t get off work, some did not find out in time, ultimately the seating was so limited its better no one else showed up. My name was called I went to the desk in front of the judge. The judge asked the Village of West Milwaukee attorney what the villages’ position was “the Village does not take a position at this time your Honor”. Judge Martens asked me if I had done any of the things or was subject to any of the things that would have disqualified me from getting my firearm. I swore to tell the truth then I did. He told me I could wait back in the seating section. Just as I sat down the judge says (I might be mistaken as to the actual wording but the intent was clear as water to me) [oh, and.. I meant to say this as well… this court makes the finding that since Mr. Gonzalez is getting his firearm back there was no probable cause for his arrest or the seizure of his property]. All it meant to me was that I could not be prosecuted anymore for this incident.
I currently have my firearm and will continue to carry as if it was May 15th, 2008 and none of this had ever happened. If there is something I missed or something you wish to ask, do so and I will answer, unless I really don’t want to.
Jesus
PS those with first hand information feel free to answer questions if you know the answers and if there is a discrepancy between the account I just gave and the account I gave you please let me know so I can correct the miscommunication either here or with you. I will post the police reports in an edited post because they are on a second computer.
What an outstanding and courageous individual. Hats off! Salute!
I've been following this case since it started, Kudos to Mr. Gonzales for standing up for his rights... We've had a few similar incidents in our state and there are currently a couple of federal civil rights lawsuits against a couple of different departments and the offending LEOs.
After the incidents, I bought a level two holster and started carrying open a few times a week. I urge anyone that can open carry to do so, the only way to battle the years of anti-gun hysteria is to make it common again for people to open carry.
Check your state and local laws and then exercise your rights.
If they're rights, why do I have to check the local laws ?
You might be living in one of those commie states... ;-)
But that would be the point of my post, some citizens (including LEO) don't recognize it as a right, that is why I started Open Carry myself. I've only had a hand full people comment on my displayed weapon, most comments were very positive.
Did the police read Gonzalez his Miranda Rights when they arrested him? If not, he can sue for false arrest or a similar charge.
He can also ask the Internal Affairs Dept. to investigate misconduct by the officers from assault, to illegal search of his car, threatening him, disorderly conduct, etc.
Believe me, I’ve done this and buttfu*cked a bunch of bad cops.
You see, an IA complain has to be investigated and the complaint remains in an officer’s personnel file, permanently, so if there are additional complaints by other individuals at different times, they become grounds for a full scale IA investigation and hearing, often leading to dismissal.
Fight fire with fire
PS: I’ve got an AA Certificate (similar to a degree) in Police Science and learned about IA from one of my local PD’s members. He didn’t like bad cops either.
If you are interested in this case, here is a link to the lawsuit that was filed:
http://www.georgiacarry.com/gonzalez_westmin/complaint.pdf
Commendable practice, and very good advice. I'd add that one should always tote a recording device and know by heart the contact number of an attorney who is familiar with these issues and more or less "on call."
I just read the filed case on the link I posted on the last post. It is simple, short, and straight to the point. Very nice.
Good points, I've though of some of the same items, my phone has a recorder both sound and video, Our State 2A Group always steps in with counsel recommendations if needed. its pitiful those options are even needed...
But the more of us that get out there "in the open" the more comfortable fellow citizens will get. Because with the way the battle has firmed up, I think we are reaching a tipping point... the only way we can go is a full blown push forward in 2A Rights, to retreat at this point while facing a hard core anti-2A government licking their chops for an all out Gun Ban.. We WILL be surrendering our rights to the federal government.
Here’s my question for Mr Gonzalez. Why the hell are you still living in Milwaukee? I left 15 years ago and couldn’t be happier. What do you think it will get better there?
should be... “I’ve thought”
Instead of fleeing, Mr. Gonzalez has clearly chosen to stay and fight. His courageous actions have precipitated significant progress in making Milwaukee and all of Wisconsin a better place to live. Every Wisconsin resident, regardless of whether he or she chooses to carry a firearm openly or even own a firearm, owns a debt of gratitude to Mr. Gonzalez for expanding the legal recognition of all of our rights.
We need men who will stand up and be counted. Some won't turn tail.
Bookmarked.
You think differently with a family.
Bump To The Top
The saga continues...
Google it up and hand him a copy.
Good luck.
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