Posted on 04/26/2009 12:14:37 AM PDT by TornadoAlley3
CHICAGO – Doctors know some patients needing lifesaving care won't get it in a flu pandemic or other disaster. The gut-wrenching dilemma will be deciding who to let die. Now, an influential group of physicians has drafted a grimly specific list of recommendations for which patients wouldn't be treated. They include the very elderly, seriously hurt trauma victims, severely burned patients and those with severe dementia.
The suggested list was compiled by a task force whose members come from prestigious universities, medical groups, the military and government agencies. They include the Department of Homeland Security, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Department of Health and Human Services.
The proposed guidelines are designed to be a blueprint for hospitals “so that everybody will be thinking in the same way” when pandemic flu or another widespread health care disaster hits, said Dr. Asha Devereaux. She is a critical care specialist in San Diego and lead writer of the task force report.
(Excerpt) Read more at rds.yahoo.com ...
it isn’t “incase” it is WHEN. It’s coming!
#26...AMEN!
You got the point, but you missed the point.
We know that Death comes from Sin. [and sin from lusting and enticing.] We did indeed inherit sin-nature at birth... but God never meant for man to die, just as He never meant for man to sin.
God is just so good that He didn’t just give up on us when we [humanity] became “damaged goods” by sinning; but provided a way out, Himself.
To suggest that death is natural is to suggest that God created us with a sin-nature, which we know is not the case.
And that is the problem.
Triage, in cases of denial of care, is used when the patient will either die anyway, or use up so much resources where the doc's treating him could have saved 3 people. This is what is done in battlefield triage.
Reading a bit further into this article, it looks like someone wants to kill off the "unfit". Or they expect this to be like a 1918 pandemic.
sorry! I think that is a bit delusional thinking that others will “self-choose”. I am not sure where you live, but I have seen a lot of selfishness and self-cenetered people. When push comes to shove, they will not step aside for anyone.
This is what happens when God is removed from public discourse because we can't "offend" anyone in this day and age. God is the Author and Giver of life, and yet we plod ahead and make decisions about life and death without Him. Such a travesty! We have entered frightening territory where only fools dare to tread. And by the way, how does the Hypocratic Oath work for those doctors who perform abortions?
If there is a way you can do it, I’d try to get a stash of
insulin in case things get bad. Resources to make it may
be diverted into other things. I just got thru reading a
book called One Second After. You don’t read it. To sad.
Thanks for your kind affirmation of
Biblical values.
They are typically so precious and loving.
imho.
A lot to learn from such a loving person.
I’m sorry you get sick every year.
I haven’t missed any work due to illness since 1991.
I think the key ingredient in my own personal resistance to infection is eating a green salad for lunch every day. I don’t know what the science is behind it. I just know that it works for me.
However one of the "games" was that you were a helicopter pilot, and had to fly out to an island with an erupting volcano. It was a 45 minute trip, and you were the only helicopter available to rescue people on the island. There were 10 people on the small island, but you could only carry 3 passengers.
This game kinda torqued me off tho, because it geared you to make moral judgments on people. You were informed of the people on the island. There was a retired couple in their 70s, a 26 YO unmarried mom with her 9 year old son, a 32 year old gay man with AIDS, a 54 year old white businessman, and so on
So our group had to discuss what we would do if we were the pilot. In a sense, it is like this flu discussion, and you have to triage the people.
The facilitator did not like my answer. I said I would land the helicopter about a half mile away, and the first 3 that got to me would live to see tomorrow. That is my triage. (She didn't get the jollies of hearing me say the AIDS guy would die (and how evil that was)). Hey, if Mr. AIDS guy got to me in the top 3, we'd be flying away.
But if this flu thing really gets out of hand (which I highly, highly doubt), sometimes somebody has gotta make decisions that aren't that pleasant.
And yet...God will not be mocked. The scourge of our society has been abortion. The President is not only supportive of abortion, but also states that pregnancy is a punishment. He supports gay marriage. He says we are not a Christian nation. It will not go unpunished. God will not be mocked. May the church and Christians be on their knees in prayer for this country. May God have mercy, in Jesus Name!
No one has the right to put themselves in the position of God. Deciding life and death of others is doing just that, regardless of the set of criteria being used. Ultimately they will have to answer to God, Himself, for such actions/ decisions.
First, my serious answer.
ER doctors, as well as military doctors, have to do triage all the time. Doing triage, in of itself, is a non-story.
The fact that the government is preparing a triage priorities list (that is apparently different than the standard one taught throughout med school) is very very troubling.
Second, my snarky answer.
The double-secret list also includes conservatives at the top of the list. (Think I’m all-the-way joking: You’ll note that those with full-blown AIDS are not listed)
Good answer! The only way you could have rubbed salt in it is invoke the power of God to save the most righteous.
Hopefully, nobody will ever have to make that decision. I do understand that they have to make these plans and, ugly as it is, they will have to make horrible, soul destroying decisions that will haunt them for the rest of their lives. The simple fact is, a lot of people won’t survive even WITH treatment.
**To suggest that death is natural is to suggest that God created us with a sin-nature, which we know is not the case.**
In a way I think you are getting the message and missing the message.
We have Adam and Eve who even though created sinless were enticed by the devil to disobey God. The beginning of original sin happened right there. And all mankind of following genrations are born with that original sin. Baptism wipes the soul clean and takes that original sin away, Catholics believe.
But humans are still weak when it comes to temptation. We are not as pure and strong and obedient as Jesus Christ was and is. We have a tendency to be tempted. Thus that sin — the real cause of death — is always present in our lives.
Catholics believe in the Sacrament of Reconciliation through which GOD forgives the sins through the words of the priest. Have you ever read those words of absolution. So many Catholics, realizing that they are prone to sin, partake of this blessed sacrament, instituted by Christ which gives grace to us. We and then equipped to fight the sin again, but being weak, are tempted and fall again.
Christ doesn’t give up on us — we give up on Christ and the Sacraments and when we don’t seek forgiveness, keep dying each day. As I said in my other post, “Even a baby is on loan to the parents; they are children of God and can die at any moment.” (I know, I didn’t use those words, but perhaps this is clearer.)
**To suggest that death is natural is to suggest that God created us with a sin-nature, which we know is not the case.**
In a way I think you are getting the message and missing the message.
We have Adam and Eve who even though created sinless were enticed by the devil to disobey God. The beginning of original sin happened right there. And all mankind of following genrations are born with that original sin. Baptism wipes the soul clean and takes that original sin away, Catholics believe.
But humans are still weak when it comes to temptation. We are not as pure and strong and obedient as Jesus Christ was and is. We have a tendency to be tempted. Thus that sin — the real cause of death — is always present in our lives.
Catholics believe in the Sacrament of Reconciliation through which GOD forgives the sins through the words of the priest. Have you ever read those words of absolution. So many Catholics, realizing that they are prone to sin, partake of this blessed sacrament, instituted by Christ which gives grace to us. We and then equipped to fight the sin again, but being weak, are tempted and fall again.
Christ doesn’t give up on us — we give up on Christ and the Sacraments and when we don’t seek forgiveness, keep dying each day. As I said in my other post, “Even a baby is on loan to the parents; they are children of God and can die at any moment.” (I know, I didn’t use those words, but perhaps this is clearer.)
“No one has the right to put themselves in the position of God. Deciding life and death of others is doing just that”
God will always decide who lives and who dies. First Responders and ER docs only decide how to allocate limited resources. They do the best they can, to save as many as possible. Decisions are not made lightly, and are not made with some arbitrary set of values.
Sometimes the patient receiving immediate care will die. even though they were first, and sometimes the patient who must wait will live in spite of waiting. It happens more than you think, and makes it clear to me that God is still fully in control of life and death decisions.
Before you judge the process to be an example of the destruction of our country, try to come up with a better solution.
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