GOP cools on a hot-button issue [amnesty] [Romney on illegals] [barf]

The Boston Globe ^ | 2009-04-09 | Joan Vennochi

[rabscuttle385]

THOSE OLD Republican hot buttons are growing cold. For proof, check out a recent interview with Mitt Romney, a former presidential candidate and ex-governor of Massachusetts.

According to TheHill.com, a congressional newspaper that publishes when Congress is in session, "Romney believes that one way to attract more minorities to the GOP is to pass immigration reform before the next election, saying the issue becomes demagogued by both parties on the campaign trail." The article also quotes Romney as saying, "We have a natural affinity with Hispanic-American voters, Asian-American voters."

This could be extreme political repositioning, even for Romney.

. . . . .

How Romney gets beyond the flip-flop-flips of his multiple-choice positions on immigration and other issues is a mystery only he can solve.

[GOP_Lady]

You are just another one of those people who want to believe what they want to believe, because it’s apparent you have not read what I have posted.

I could care less if you like Romney or not. What I care about is the truth. I don’t appreciate people on this site posting false information about ANYONE. We’re supposed to be better than that.

Now, do I have to repeat that again?

[mbraynard]

Uhm. What the hell do they have to do with anything?

Please, put your computer back in the box and return it to Best Buy. You may be able to exchange it for a new car stereo or something you might be able to operate.

[calcowgirl]

You disagree that there are problems with the legal immigration problem? Or just that it is as big a problem?

Please read the post again. It's really pretty clear.

I said I disagreed that "legal immigration policy is just as big a problem as our illegal immigration problem"

I believe the illegal immigration problem far surpasses legal immigration issues.

BTW - Romney already put a plan forward. Over a year ago.

And there have been multiple threads and articles published in the last week indicating that he is changing his stance. Hence, I will reserve judgment until he puts something forward with substance.

[calcowgirl]

Chain migration = newborn to illegals born here. Everyone else who is illegal here becomes legal. More illegals come here.

Huh? Chain migration is a term applied to legal immigrants wherein they can bring their family in legally under the family reunification provisions of law. It has nothing to do with illegals.

You really ought to spend some time on FAIR's website getting a handle on this. You make us look bad.

Who is "us." What did I say that made "you" look bad? I have studied the subject and relied on multiple sources, including FAIR.

Every real conservative in the US Congress has proposed reforms to try to end the nightmare of illegal immigration.

And those that have offered reforms under the guise of "comprehensive" reform are always pushing a form of amnesty. BTW, who in Congress do you consider "real conservatives" vs. "not-real conservatives"?

You are so brilliant. Are you in Mensa with Joe Biden?

Gotta throw in those personal insults. You sure are consistent!

[Finny]

You say you care about the truth. The truth is that if you say to someone "You're a liar!" and leave it at that without backing it up with proof, then you've got nothing and no one has any reason to believe you or take you seriously; it's time for you to let it drop and wait for an issue that you can follow up with real proof. Those are the breaks. If all the proof you've got is your word, it helps if you or your side has a reputation of ethics and honesty in their word.

As it is, many Romney supporters -- and it is unique to Romney people; I never saw it as a general characteristic of McCain or Giuliani or Huck or Fred supporters -- on Free Republic have a reputation of misreprenting the truth, taking things wildly out of context, and making baseless accusations ranging from religious bigotry to forgery of items chronicling Mitt's pro-homosexual politics in the past. When I asked the guy for proof that they were forgeries ... *poof* Silence. Crickets. When one guy claimed that Rush Limbaugh "said on his show that he voted for Romney," and I asked for some kind of transcript, and every word on every show Rush does is transcripted ... *poof* Silence. Crickets.

So while you yourself may be credible, the crowd you hang with -- the Pro Romney group -- has demonstrated amply that it is anything but credible. Your crying and whining and bad sportsmanship doesn't do you any favors. Bad losers are bad winners, as most of us remember from experiences as kids playing games with other kids who were notorious bad sports. They were whiny bitter schmucks when they lost, and insufferably cocky snots when they won. That is why I'm so glad Romney lost.

[Diogenesis]

Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's past behavior. Use evasion - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's past behavior. Attack poster and all other GOP candidates - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's past abdication to Democrats - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's appointment of corrupt, liberal pro-criminal judges, overlooking GOP candidates - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's usurping Mass Constitution - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's wussiness to criticism using tears and fabricated 'religious persecution' - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney is the MSM's choice because they have files already prepared against him - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's coverup of the "Big Dig" for donations - check.
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's bankruptcy of Mass for his HillaryCARE=RomneyCARE - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's refusal to let citizens vote on his socialist plans - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's targetting of other GOP candidates - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's decimation of Mass GOP and that he couldn't win Mass to Hillary -check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's real impact on Massachusetts - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's federal bailout of the Olympics - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's begging for a federal bailout of RomneyCARE - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore Romney's use of fake law enforcement officers (caught in at least two states) - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Ignore TeamROMNEY's attacks on Gov. Palin and her children - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Use "Hate" as RomneyBOT Codeword to stop criticism of Romney - check
Action of RomneyBOT - Use "Bigot" as RomneyBOT Codeword to stop criticism of Romney - check

Action of sociopathic RomneyBOT - Use "Liar" as RomneyBOT Codeword to stop criticism of Romney
. . . then hide like a snake in the grass - check

[GOP_Lady]

How many times do I have to explain myself?

Okay, I”ll give you another example of Diogenesis’ lies. Diogenisis posted numerous times that a certain candidate “attacked” and “hurt” Sarah Palin’s “little children.” Now, don’t you have a problem with that like I do? Diogenesis’ crap has got to stop. And, like I said, I don’t care who the lies are about — lies are lies.

[GOP_Lady]

How many times do I have to explain myself?

Okay, I”ll give you another example of Diogenesis’ lies. Diogenisis posted numerous times that a certain candidate “attacked” and “hurt” Sarah Palin’s “little children.” Now, don’t you have a problem with that like I do? Diogenesis’ crap has got to stop. And, like I said, I don’t care who the lies are about — lies are lies.

[spectre]

"Romney believes that one way to attract more minorities to the GOP is to pass immigration reform before the next election, saying the issue becomes demagogued by both parties on the campaign trail.” "

That does it!

Where's the logic in granting citizenship to millions of people who will suck this country dry in entitlements and contribute little to nothing?

He would sell out our country for people who aren't going to vote Republican anyway?

sw

[Diogenesis]

Posting references to the posts and reports of others,
could not possibly be in itself "lies".
In fact, such an obvious false distortion, made in the absence of facts to rebut,
such as made repeatedly by GOP_Lady (indeed),
are the last refuge of scoundrels unable to rebut anything.

"Peeking Out From the McCain Wreckage: Mitt Romney"

"Someone's got to say it: IS MITT ROMNEY RESPONSIBLE FOR OBAMA'S VICTORY?"

"Vanity: Team Romney Sabotaged Palin and Continuing to Do So?"

"Romney Supporters Trashing Palin"

"Romney advisors sniping at Palin?"

---

Similar to Romney's other scortched earth tactics:

Novak: "Fred Thompson drop-out rumors traced to Romney campaign"

Said Novak: "The rumors were traced in part to Mitt Romney's campaign,
trying to stir up strife between McCain and Thompson."

"Despite outspending his rivals by huge margins throughout the primaries,
(Mitt Romney, Carpetbagger UT,CA,MA,NH,Mexico) lost Iowa, South Carolina, Florida and California.
The only primaries he won were in Michigan, where Dad was governor; LDS states;
and a few states on Super Tuesday in which his California-obsessed rivals
couldn't spare the cash to advertise.
Only John Connolly in 1968 had a worse cash-to-delegates ratio.
And John McCain rightly did not like Romney's tactics during the primaries.
(W)hen (Romney's early leads) started slipping away, he resorted to unfair,
distorted, scorched-earth negative ads, betting that his opponents couldn't
afford to spend enough for the truth to catch up to his charges."
[Romney: A Mistake for McCain, 7/23/2008, Dick Morris]

[sickoflibs]

(#139) mbraynard;:” So you don't think laws need to be changed or added to affect the following status quo: Chain migration.
Anyone born on US soil - even if their parent just snuck across the border - being granted US citizenship.
Letting Obama’s illegal relative stay in the US.
Illegal immigrants being entitled to education, health, and all kinds of social benefits.
Immigration quotas that favor the third world “

(#149)sickoflibs:So you trust Obama/Pelosi/Reid to fix these problems?? Go read the stimulus package if you need an idea what they might do. Jeeze!

(#182) mbraynard;: Uhm. What the hell do they have to do with anything?

OK. So you have not read the papers. Democrats won two elections and control both houses of congress AND the white House. So you suggested in #139 you trust DEMOCRATS to reform immigration and solve all the problems you listed (copied above). That is insane.

[GOP_Lady]

"Posting references to the posts and reports of others, could not possibly be in itself "lies".

Tell that to a judge in a court of law and see how far you get. EXCUSES.

Now, where are the pictures of Mitt Romney "attacking" and "hurting" Sarah Palin's "little children?" Your own words, not mine. You posted this happened. WHERE'S THE PROOF? Before you make a horrible claim like that, you had better have proof.

BE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT YOU POST, DIOGENESIS.

[curiosity]

Chain migration = newborn to illegals born here.

That is really not correct. Chain migration is what happens when we give visa preferences to relatives of immigrants already here. So someone is allowed to come in because she's a nurse and demand for nurses is very high. She then brings in her adult sister. The adult sister brings over her husband and children. The husband sponsors his siblings and their parents. They then sponsor their siblings (his aunts and uncles). The aunts and uncles sponsor their adult children. etc., etc., etc.

That is chain migration.

[Finny]

How many times do you have to do it? Every time, just like any political warrior does. You have to do it every time, all the time, and when you do, you cannot just say, "You're lying!" without something to back it up. You think you should be able to cry "liar!" once or twice and then sit back and be done with it? Then you are thinking like a little girl. What I really suspect it is is that you're too lazy to put the effort of researching and then writing up your claims. Diogenesis and fieldmarshaldj have obviously put a lot of time and work into their research and writing, and it shows -- it's effective. You don't want to go to the work, time, and trouble of actually researching and finding things to prove what you charge, but you want to be treated as if you did. In that, you're behaving like a spoiled third-grade girl.

How many times do I have to tell fellow FReepers that Romneybots lie about "endorsements" from Rush Limbaugh, Mike Reagan, and who knows who else? I have to do it everytime I see it come up. And if you notice, I am always ready to back it up -- I don't just say that Limbaugh and Reagan never endorsed Romney, I go to the trouble and time of either explaining or posting the details that prove no endorsements were intended or given, because I have done the work of finding the proof myself. And if anyone challenges me on it, I have the real stuff to back it up.

You think Diogensis is lying. Fine. SHOW US some proof the links and articles about the Palin charges aren't genuine, instead of just saying that he's lying and when whining when people don't believe you because you cannot or will not back it up.

You really do behave like a third grade girl on this forum with your expectations. Again, if you're going to say "lies are lies," SHOW HOW AND WHY you think they are lies. You think you can just say it and be taken on faith. It is extremely arrogant and stupid of you to take that attitude.

When I say that certain posters here lie, I back it up with PROOF.

You say Diogenesis has lied about a particular item. PROVE IT.

[mbraynard]

The newborn citizen is the ‘anchor’ for the chain.

[GOP_Lady]

Okay, so you want ME to prove that:

1. Mitt Romney did not “attack” or “hurt” Sarah Palin’s “little children” (as Diogenesis has posted multiple times);

2. Mitt Romney really meant “promise them anything” during the campaign phone bank fund raising (as Diogenesis has posted multiple times and keeps posting); and

3. That Mitt Romney really “claimed himself President” (yes, that's another lie Diogenesis has posted multiple times — he stopped posting that after I called it him on it).

If you can't see the OBVIOUS answer to these, then I can't help you. You have to think and help yourself. Oh, by the way, I'm an adult woman, not a little girl, and have been able to see this. Why does one have to prove a very, very obvious lie?

I've answered your question PERSONALLY to you just two days ago about the “promise them anything,” and yet you want me to answer it again. Why?

If you want to read smearmongering and want to hang out with people on FR who smearmonger, go right ahead. But, I will keep pointing it out.

LIEING is WRONG and SMEARING is WRONG and perpetuating misinformation is WRONG. This is not about Mitt Romney, it's about doing this to ANYONE. This is not what should be done on FR. One has to take responsibility for what they post.

[trisham]

Everyone here on free republic also supports immigration reform.

****************

They do?

[Diogenesis]

GOP_Lady "Okay, so you want ME to prove that: 1. Mitt Romney did not “attack” or “hurt” Sarah Palin’s “little children” (as Diogenesis has posted multiple times);

The liar GOP_Lady knows that the URLs did show Team Romney savaged Gov. Palin
through the night of Election2008 (RomneyBOTs here, too).

"Peeking Out From the McCain Wreckage: Mitt Romney"

"Someone's got to say it: IS MITT ROMNEY RESPONSIBLE FOR OBAMA'S VICTORY?"

"Vanity: Team Romney Sabotaged Palin and Continuing to Do So?"

"Romney Supporters Trashing Palin"

"Romney advisors sniping at Palin?"

That abuse of Gov. Palin by TeamROMNEY HAD to have
an impact on the Governor's children, all of them.

It is interesting that Romney's abuse of his dog Seamus was also minimized.
And that is just one example

"But the details of the event are more than unseemly — they may, in fact, be illegal.
Massachusetts's animal cruelty laws specifically prohibit anyone
from carrying an animal "in or upon a vehicle, or otherwise, in an unnecessarily cruel
or inhuman manner or in a way and manner which might endanger the
animal carried thereon." An officer for the Massachusetts Society
for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals responded to a description of the situation
saying "it's definitely something I'd want to check out." The officer,
Nadia Branca, declined to give a definitive opinion on whether Romney broke the law
but did note that it's against state law to have a dog in an open bed of a pick-up truck,
and "if the dog was being carried in a way that endangers it, that would be illegal."

---

"Dog on Roof? What Was It Like for Romney's Pooch?
Scientists Say Dog Likely Experienced Wind-Whipped, Uncomfortable Trip
"Before beginning the drive, Mitt Romney put Seamus, the family's hulking Irish setter,
in a dog carrier and attached it to the station wagon's roof rack.
e'd built a windshield for the carrier, to make the ride more comfortable for the dog," read the article.
Jordan Kaplan, the owner of Petaholics, a dog walking service in New York City,
and a lifelong dog owner and dog lover, said Romney's actions were uncalled for.
....What Happens to a Dog on a Roof Traveling 50 MPH?"

---

"Romney's dog - This is a distinction Mitt Romney probably could do without, but he is surely
the first presidential candidate to be attacked for putting a dog with diarrhea
in a carrier and tying it to the top of a station wagon.
Romney's defense: Seamus liked it. "He scrambled up there every time we went on trips,"
the Republican said during a campaign stop in Pittsburgh. "He got in all by himself and enjoyed it."

---

"As the oldest son, Tagg Romney commandeered the way-back of the wagon,
keeping his eyes fixed out the rear window, where he glimpsed the first sign of trouble.
''Dad!'' he yelled. ''Gross!'' A brown liquid was dripping down the back window,
payback from an Irish setter who'd been riding on the roof in the wind for hours.
As the rest of the boys joined in the howls of disgust,
Romney coolly pulled off the highway and into a service station.
There, he borrowed a hose, washed down Seamus and the car,
then hopped back onto the highway."

---

"Story about dog on car roof comes back to bite Romney
Critics, jokesters make issue of tale
TIME.com's Swampland blog has been flooded with more than 200 comments
from readers complaining of animal cruelty"

---

Romney's bad behavior Exposed by Seamus

"Romney Loses Nomination Over Dog Abuse?
Romney was traveling that summer with his wife, five sons, and Seamus to his parent's cottage on Lake Huron.
But hours into the ride, Seamus apparently suffered diarrhea,
which ran down the back window of the car. Romney's sons, all under 13, howled in disgust.
Romney pulled off the road into a service station.
There, he borrowed a hose, washed down Seamus and the car, and they drove on to Ontario.
.....David Kravitz wrote on BlueMassGroup, a liberal blog.
"It also strikes me as classic Romney: it solves a problem efficiently,
in a business-like manner, and with no regard whatsoever
for the suffering that the solution may cause."

---

GOP_Lady "2. Mitt Romney really meant “promise them anything”
during the campaign phone bank fund raising (as Diogenesis has posted multiple times and keeps posting); and "

GOP_Lady used to say this was "no big deal" (see original thread).
Now despite the whining, the FACTS are shown by video, FR thread, and ABC audio tape.

RINO Chameleon carpetbagger socialist Mitt Romney: “Make all the promises you have to...”

---

GOP_Lady "3. That Mitt Romney really “claimed himself President”
(yes, that's another lie Diogenesis has posted multiple times — he stopped posting that after I called it him on it).

FACT: As noted, Romney is NOT listed as Governor (which he is not anymore) or Bishop, but as President. Note also, that Sen. McCain and Sen. Obama are listed as ... Senator.

"Top 20 Recipients of AIG Contributions in 2008"

---

---

GOP_Lady "LIEING (sic) is WRONG and SMEARING is WRONG and perpetuating misinformation is WRONG"

Then GOP_Lady should not do it.

[GOP_Lady]

I don't smearmonger, but you do.

Are you going to post your information on Romney “attacking” Palin’s “ little children” that you posted? Funny, because if it did happen, all of us would have heard about it in the news.

You're a smearmonger just like Al Franken.

[Finny]

Yes, as a matter of fact, I DO want you to prove those things. When I say that Romney supporters are lying when they claim Rush and Michael Reagan "endorsed" Romney, I have info to PROVE it.

No, I can't see the "OBVIOUS" answer to those items you mention, and only the most inconsiderate of writers (when you post to FR, you are a writer) assumes such in readers. As a writer, it's your job to provide those answers.

If the answers are so obvious ... why is it so difficult for you to, dozens of times if need be in dozens of posts if need be, clearly state them?

I can only conclude that it is a) because the answers aren't obvious or even existant and/or b) you're too lazy to do the writing work it requires to convey your ideas. Instead, you put it on everyone else and have the gumption to blame everyone else when they don't just magically see the same things you see. If you want to be understood, then you have to communicate clearly. You are either too lazy lack the clarity of thought to do so.

You may be a grown woman, but you act like a little girl when you stamp your foot and demand that other people just take you on your word that you're right and they're wrong. You are the one who is not taking responsiblity for what you post.