Replies

“And why would that mean anything? Under that idea, Obama should have bowed to Berlusconi since he is the leader of Italy, where the Vatican/Pope is located - which is after all considered the city that represents Catholic/Christian faith.”

I see your point, but wish to explain that the religious and political combine in Islamic, Occidental culture. Witness Sharia law. The Vatican is considered its own state, too, although it is protected by Italy and connected with it.

Saudi Arabia embodies some of those characteristics, but is nonetheless different, as it is not Western. 0bama’s bow to a Western political leader versus bowing to the Pope would not occur, in my opinion. Bowing to the Saudi king without the king bowing in return revealed 0bama’s intention, deference, and homage to someone he thinks superior, and someone with whom 0bama shares a culture.

In bowing to the Saudi king, coupled with the Saudi king not bowing in return, 0bama humbled himself, something a sitting president of the US has never done for another world leader.

To continue the perspective and opinion on this issue, please consider these collective concepts and events as part of a pattern:

The Saudis rule a theocracy. They are also Wahabbis, who are funding mosques and madrassas like mad all over the world. along with their funding of the Muslim Brotherhood (of Zawahiri fame—who schooled Osama Bin Laden). The bin Ladens themselves are tight as ticks with the Saudis, too (bin la deen also means ‘of those who have not gone astray’—the last words of the sura of the ‘clot’ [Sura #1]—bismi’llah, ar-raham, ar-rahim, Rab il ala’min Translation: In the name of god, the merciful, the commpassionate —or the kind kindred: ruler of the world).

Theocratic rulership includes the Saudi religious police. Remember that they behead many people and inflict justice in ways not understood by Westerners. Remember, “Saudis order 40 lashes for elderly woman for mingling.”

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/03/09/saudi.arabia.lashes/

Or this: “Saudi police ‘stopped’ fire rescue
The Mecca city governor visited the fire-damaged school”

“Saudi Arabia’s religious police stopped schoolgirls from leaving a blazing building because they were not wearing correct Islamic dress, according to Saudi newspapers.”

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1874471.stm

Further, as a theocratic, occidental, Islamic country, “Saudi Arabian society is the model. Saudi Arabia is the purely Islamic state - Al Qaeda does not fight to overthrow it, but rather to expand this theocratic dictatorship to the world.

Al Qaeda does not attack the state of Saudi Arabia. Al Qaeda attacks foriegn influence, foreign power and foriegn ideas - Al Qaeda fights as supremicists defending holy ideals. Most likely somewhere in the House of Saud exists the chief funder for Al Qaeda, who sacrafices the jihadis to expand the influence Saudi theocracy.”

http://warisforwinning.blogspot.com/2005/10/al-qaedas-aim.html

In addition, as an Occidental non-Western nation state, the Saudis also have bought into certain legacies from the West, along with expression in the Qur’an of their own beliefs, the hatred of Jews.

http://tellthechildrenthetruth.com/gallery/index.html

To refine even further, be reminded that Occidentalism is understood as a mindset separated to the West by a veil. As Disraeli put it: “...placed in this structure has been “Islam,” a great religion and a culture certainly, but also an Occidental myth, part of...(what was) once called “the great Asiatic mystery.”

(snip)

(Muslims) affirm a “superior” Occidental identity. Thus, for the West, to understand Islam has meant trying to convert its variety into a monolithic undeveloping essence, its originality into a debased copy of Christian culture, its people into fearsome caricatures.”

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,912409,00.html

Even in the US, these Saudi mindsets and inroads are running deeper, as the Wahabbi corridor in the US demonstrates: “THE WAHHABI CORRIDOR”

“WAMY: U.S. offices of the Saudi-based World Assembly of Muslim Youth, formerly run by Abdullah bin Laden, nephew of America’s Enemy No. 1. Tucked back in the corner of the Skyline Court Professional Park at 5134 Leesburg Pike, Alexandria, Va., WAMY was recently raided by U.S. authorities.

Though the Saudi-controlled enterprise — which teaches teen-aged Muslim boys to sacrifice their lives in jihad against the infidels — is still under federal investigation, the administration has been reluctant to freeze its assets and designate it as a terrorist entity, a move that would upset the powerful and well-connected head of the Saudi Embassy. The sensitive case is under court seal.”

(Note: We remind ourselves from recent news that it is to Alexandria, VA, that we are hearing the 17 muslims might be released from Gitmo.)

http://www.sperryfiles.com/corridor.shtml

In a related issue, remember that Osama bin Laden wanted a worldwide Caliphate. The Khalifat movement, begun in 1918 as the Ottoman empire fell, has ties to the Saudis.

“Islamic caliphate” From SourceWatch
The concept of Islamic caliphate can be properly understood in three different ways, and distorted by deliberately confusing the three ways:

The historical caliphs and their examples as rulers, documented to a somewhat lesser extent than the sira or life of Muhammad. The Sunni and Shia views of the examples of these rulers differ drastically and are variously interpreted by contemporaries in early Muslim philosophy.

The modern Shia version of this view has been in large part implemented with political compromises in the constitution of Iran.

The fiqh and shariah (jurisprudence of law) that came from this period and were applied by the Ottoman Empire.

[snip]

(A) re-establishment of “Islamic caliphate” means essentially a re-establishment of the Ottoman Empire and its continued evolution from where it ended in 1918, with perhaps more local autonomy. This view is usually associated with the Wahabist movement originating with Sunni power figures in Saudi Arabia, and nominally embodied in such regimes as the Afghanistan Taliban and such non-state actors as Al Qaeda.

[snip]

Islamization of knowledge that build on these norms to a new conception of a “caliphate” that would be quite compatible with some notions of modern secular democracy, e.g. the Green Parties, where feminism and non-violent methods are seen as paths to achieving reforms. The Hizb-ut-Tahrir is considered by some, e.g. Olivier Roy, to be one such group. Others follow the views of Seyyed Hossein Nasr or Ismail Al-Faruqi, which have been very influential in Egypt, Pakistan, Lebanon and Jordan especially in human rights movements and peace movements in the nations.”

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Islamic_caliphate

The history to the Wahabbi extremeism and caliphate movement in the 20th century leads back to the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Amin al Husseini, who had direct ties to Arafat and Iraq. It is included here for background and connection to the Wahabbi extremism and its proliferation in Saudi Arabia and now growing in the US:

“After the war, the Haj became a respected elder and figurehead in the Pan-Arabist movement of the 1950s and 1960s. He consulted with Egyptian President and leading Pan-Arabist Nasser, and later became a young Yassir Arafat’s hero and idol.

He was more than that to Arafat . Arafat’s mother Hamida Khalifa al-Husseini was a cousin to the very same Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin al-Husseini . So Arafat was his nephew or grand-newphew and his full name was Muhammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Husseini.

To avoid negative impression this might have on the Western media, Amin al-Husseini’s nephew simply shortened his name. The trick worked.”

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/91867

This same Mufti of Jerusalem also influenced the course of Iraq:
“The Nazi Background of Saddam Hussein” Charles A. Morse, Friday, Feb. 21, 2003

“Khairallah Tulfah, Saddam Hussein’s uncle and future father-in-law, along with Gen. Rashid Ali and the so-called “golden square” cabal of pro-Nazi officers, participated in a failed coup against the pro-British government of Iraq in 1941.

Operating behind the scenes in Baghdad at the time, arranging for Nazi weapons and assistance, was the notorious pro-Nazi Haj Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.

The Mufti had been on the Nazi payroll, according to testimony at the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, since 1937, when he had met with Adolf Eichmann during Eichmann’s brief visit to Palestine. Saddam Hussein was born in 1937.

The Mufti, after instigating a pogrom against Jews in Palestine in 1920, the first such pogrom against Jews in the Arab world in hundreds of years, went on to inspire the development of pro-Nazi parties throughout the Arab world including Young Egypt, led by Gamal Abdul Nasser, and the Social Nationalist Party of Syria led by Anton Sa’ada.”

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2003/2/20/145726.shtml

Bin Laden’s goal (along with the Khalifat movement established in 1918) speaks of a worldwide caliphate. The Saudis have fought against this, but that fight demonstrates the internecine struggle among Middle Eastern states for leadership of the Arab/Muslim world:

“The revival of the “back to the caliphate” motto also reveals a deeper crisis of legitimacy within Sunni Islam. When Atatürk abolished the caliphate in 1924, two years after toppling the Ottoman sultanate, he deprived the Sunni world of an undisputed guiding voice. Sharif Hussein of Mecca immediately tried to fill this void, but he was smashed by the rising power of Wahhabi Islam. Saudi Arabia was built on the ruins of this aborted caliphate, although its monarchs do not now claim a nobler title than “custodian of the holy places.”

Nowadays, to be called “commander of the believers” one has to be the king of Morocco, or Mullah Omar of Afghanistan, who assumed the title when, in Kandahar in 1996, he took up a cloak said to have belonged to the Prophet himself as a founding gesture for the Taliban emirate.

[snip]

“A fundamental key to the Saudi theocracy is, however, that not only does the Saudi royal family brainwash or otherwise educate their citizens in Wahhabism, these royals are also exporting Wahhabism’s puritanical, radically intolerant, and no-holds-barred-kill-the-infidels’ message to the rest of the Muslim world. Parts of this indoctrination include:

1) the idea that a Muslim is automatically a better human being — an ironic reference to certain aspects of Judaism -

2) bombing bars and beating women who go out without being fully covered — the basic Taliban technique

3) asking Allah to destroy all infidels — i.e., anyone who is not an orthodox Wahhabi.

In all respects, the evidence strongly suggests Saudi Arabia is exporting terrorism to the world via financial and other support, and by indoctrination — “poisoning the youth” — of everyone under their influence. The message is a simple one: “Death to the Infidel.”

http://www.halexandria.org/dward797.htm

Based on the history of much of the 20th century, there has been an inherited understanding in the Islamic world of hatred toward infidels, and Jews in particular; the Muslim world. The umma (community of believers) are the descendants of nazi fascsism, as ‘dar es salaam’ (everything Muslim) is the world in Islamic terms. Everything else is ‘dar al harb.’ ‘Harb’ means war.

THe principal point I am making is that these cultural threads are not only interwoven, but present to the West a picture of the world that is entirely different, as though the battle of Lepanto and sieges of Vienna only paused Islamic ambitions for world conquest. That conquest is cultural, entire in its understanding of how the world works, and the next level of nazi thought and behavior. Fascist and totalitarian in rulership, Muslims embody the political and spiritual leadership for Islam, with mullahs, imams (preachers) and qadis (religious judges for Islamic jurisprudence and interpretation of hadith traditions), providing the religious arm of the nation states.

0bama’s bow before the Saudi king is thus not the same as the bowing to Berlusconi example you suggest; as you would know, it is the duty of Christians to lead people to Christ. Also, the Pope is a head of state as well, and so political leaders tend not to bow to him—or Berlusconi. I would, nevertheless, be interested to see pictures of US presidents bowing to the Pope if there are any.

We now see in this video and recent events the portents of what is to come, as I see them. It may be several years for it to play out, as was in the Germany of the 1920s and early 30s. So desperate for leadership, they sacrificed their liberty for work, money, and food. Then, they were surprised, dumbfounded and hemmed in on all sides by what was to come. The difference is that Muslims are actually willing to die for their beliefs, and will not suffer opposition.

Therefore, 0bama’s bow—even in front of world leaders—is not only against protocol, but also an expression of belief in the Islamic intention. With his appointments in US government, his intention to place Muslims in positions connected with US government and/or White House initiatives, his connections to supporting suspect NGOs, and, finally, the change of terms for the War on Terror and legal status for terrorists, this bow is submission in my eyes. It all ties together as a transnationalist effort to crush the economic and military might of the US at the same time as he enacts, perhaps by fiat or covertly, and Islamic basis for rulership at the highest levels of US government.

Sorry this is so long, but I do see a huge difference, a shedding of 0bama’s facade that shames all citizens and generations of the US.)

More on wahabbis & Saudi Arabia here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahhabism

and theocracy here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theocracy