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No Jobs Without College as Employers Treat Degree as a Minimum
U.S. News and World Report ^ | March 27, 2009 | Richard Whitmire

Posted on 03/31/2009 6:41:34 AM PDT by reaganaut1

...

Obama didn't come right out and say it, but the message is clear: College has become the new high school. Soon after my St. Louis trip I called Enterprise and learned that with a few exceptions for military it hires only college graduates for Lyndsay's position. The ability to multitask and communicate with customers, skills that years ago high schools supplied, are now found almost solely among those with two- or four-year degrees.

To hammer that reality home to high school students, states such as Kentucky and Michigan have moved to raise minimum dropout ages. If you don't make it through high school you've got no chance of acquiring the post-high school credentialing demanded by jobs of the future.

But, as a recent report by the Lumina Foundation summed up, "College attainment rates are rising in almost every industrialized or post-industrialized country in the world, except for the U.S." Lumina's point was the same as Obama's: Eventually, our flat education levels will hurt our international economic competitiveness.

That's true, but it doesn't quite capture the whole picture. Lyndsay renting me a car isn't helping our international competitiveness. Whether your bank teller has a high school degree or a Ph.D. says little about international competitiveness, but it says a lot about economic survival, which is what high school students should care about.

The college-as-high school phenomenon is picking up speed during the recession, with employers having their pick of better-educated workers. A recent Denver Post article captured that nicely: "If I had a light labor job, I'd have a Ph.D. do it," explained a Denver employment agency staffer who had just hired two people with B.A.s to pick up sticks from sidewalks.

(Excerpt) Read more at usnews.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Front Page News
KEYWORDS: bhoeducation; college; economy; education; highereducation; jobs
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To: downwdims

All depends on the program and the school. Degree in something like Math, Computer Science, Biology, Chemistry, Accounting from a good school is very valuable. Basically degree that is easy to get is not worth getting, degree from a school that is hard to get in to and maintains high standards is very valuable.

All of the guys that I graduated with from Comp Sci have jobs, full time well payed jobs with excellent benefits etc. Some went on to do MSc and PhD some started business of their own.


41 posted on 03/31/2009 8:13:36 AM PDT by dimk
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To: 668 - Neighbor of the Beast

You have quite a pool to draw from right now!


42 posted on 03/31/2009 8:15:13 AM PDT by downwdims (It does not take a majority to prevail... but rather an irate, tireless minority)
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To: reaganaut1

How much of this is due to the pampering of young adults until they reach 25 years and even then the pampering continues.


43 posted on 03/31/2009 8:18:04 AM PDT by monocle
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To: downwdims
I’m a production mechanic that works with automation techs

You are fine. A coming boom is robotics. Manufacturing will be returning to America and there will be many jobs fixing the production line. Repetitive jobs screwing on lug nuts though: not so safe.

44 posted on 03/31/2009 8:20:11 AM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
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To: MikeWUSAF

“If I can do it then anyone can do it.”

Sucker. The idea that college, the liberal arts indoctrination camps they are, is a requirement for knowledge is just drinking the commie kool-aid. Plenty of people are leaders of business and science and politics without college.

It has been my experience that many people would have been better off if they had not gone to college and learned some really bad habits and personal philosophies, not to mention graduating with serious debt from student loans.


45 posted on 03/31/2009 8:24:10 AM PDT by CodeToad (Anyone wanting the government to take over medical care should stand in line at the post office)
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To: PapaBear3625

That’s a very good point; back in 1965 I was in a field of 100 interviewees that were were tested for just two openings at Lockheed. I lived in Burbank near the plant and the other successful hiree lived in La Tujunga.

It was a thorough test and we kept our jobs until Lockheed lost the bidding on the SST.


46 posted on 03/31/2009 8:27:49 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
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To: achilles2000

What I had in mind RE: homeschooling is the emphasis on mentoring and apprenticeships over and against lectures and classroom learning. Some amount of book-work is necessary for technical careers, but even in the high-tech arena there is no substitute for being able to work side-by-side with an experienced mentor. If we could ditch the college model for a mentor-based training model we could show the rest of the world once again what made America great in the first place. (Hint: It wasn’t MBA’s.)


47 posted on 03/31/2009 8:27:49 AM PDT by Liberty1970 (Democrats are not in control. God is. And Thank God for that!)
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To: MikeWUSAF

The question isn’t can you but do you want to. Sure anybody can finish college, get yourself a nice little liberal arts degree, but what does it really prove? The most that piece of paper really proves is your willingness to stick it out, I’ve got a marriage license signed 17 years ago that proves the same thing.

What’s always funny to me when sitting around enjoying social lubricant with co-workers is how many of the ones with degrees have those degrees in completely unrelated areas. We’re a communication software company yet we have people with degrees in geology and Russian literature. Does that really make them qualified.

I did two years in college and left, I was aiming at the job not the degree. Have no intention of ever getting the degree. Don’t need it, I’m making more (about 50% more) than DOL says is the average for people my age with a 4 year degree. I’ve got the experience and places that demand degrees are usually stiff unpleasant places to work like IBM and Ratheon.


48 posted on 03/31/2009 8:28:06 AM PDT by razorboy
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To: reaganaut1

” In many states, 40 percent of high school students entering college need remediation in math, reading, or both,.....”

.....my is a college professor teaching freshman remedial English in writing....only they don’t call it “remedial”....the official title is “developmental English”....don’t want to hurt anybody’s self estem don’cha know.

.....anybody who can teach developmental English(or Math) will have a job for life....these kids can’t write a simple declarative sentence.....downside of the job is that many of them are angry insolent a**holes....just like they were in high school....black kids are the worst...my wife has been threatened and called a “white bitch”


49 posted on 03/31/2009 8:29:41 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: STONEWALLS

“my wife is...”


50 posted on 03/31/2009 8:31:12 AM PDT by STONEWALLS
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To: reaganaut1

I’ve been in the women’s studies program all of my life.


51 posted on 03/31/2009 8:31:16 AM PDT by Walmartian
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To: STONEWALLS

I’ve heard it said that we have gone from teaching Latin and Greek in our grammar schools 100 years ago to teaching basic remedial math and English in our universities today....


52 posted on 03/31/2009 8:33:49 AM PDT by Mac from Cleveland (How to make a small fortune in the Obama era--first, start off with a big fortune....)
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To: downwdims
You have quite a pool to draw from right now!

What's very hard to find, even in this recession is someone that shows up on time, doesn't drink, do drugs, litter, smoke inside, lie, cheat, or steal. Showing up on time seems to be a key trait of someone good. It's true: eighty percent of success is just showing up.

53 posted on 03/31/2009 8:34:22 AM PDT by Reeses (Leftism is powered by the evil force of envy.)
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To: Mac from Cleveland

Michael Faraday was self-taught; as an apprentice to a bookbinder — his parents couldn’t afford to feed and clothe him — he read voraciously as he worked and developed an eye for detail and fed his rapacious mind to eventually go on to a position at the eminent Royal Society, alongside Sir Davy Humphrey and his ilk.


54 posted on 03/31/2009 8:39:35 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, then writes again.)
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To: Centurion2000
With all due respect that was stupid. Plenty of people have the skills and experience without college.

Not for this position they don't and that is up for me to decide.
55 posted on 03/31/2009 8:41:13 AM PDT by TSgt (Extreme vitriol and rancorous replies served daily. - Mike W USAF)
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To: Reeses
Sadly I have to agree with you. Small business owners know how hard it is to find someone who simply shows up on time.

High schools and colleges (maybe society) pump up young kids to be executive management when they graduate. They teach them that manual labor is beneath them.

Learn a trade, then get a degree.

56 posted on 03/31/2009 8:41:51 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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To: Old Professer
Michael Faraday was self-taught; as an apprentice to a bookbinder — his parents couldn’t afford to feed and clothe him — he read voraciously as he worked and developed an eye for detail and fed his rapacious mind to eventually go on to a position at the eminent Royal Society, alongside Sir Davy Humphrey and his ilk.

Not to pick nits-but it's "Sir Humphrey Davy", not vice versa.

57 posted on 03/31/2009 8:43:23 AM PDT by Mac from Cleveland (How to make a small fortune in the Obama era--first, start off with a big fortune....)
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To: Dallas59
Companies are afraid to just hire and if it doesn’t work out, fire anyone.

You are correct. I am currently writing an article for our local HR association here in Houston on this very thing.

It's going to get worse in some areas as the candidate pool grows.

As for the topic of the thread, I've found that a combination of degree and experience are preferred, and if degree/no degree - experience is preferred. You can always get the degree later.

58 posted on 03/31/2009 8:44:05 AM PDT by RikaStrom (Bitter? Who me? Nah, I'm just clinging to my guns!)
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To: stainlessbanner
Learn a trade, then get a degree.

That's the way to go! I did just that, and what i learned in the field not only helped with the degree, it made me WAY more valuable than the 22 year olds i was competing against. Besides, i could afford (and buy) pizza and beer, too.

59 posted on 03/31/2009 8:44:43 AM PDT by Travis T. OJustice (Want to make a conservative angry? Lie to him. Want to make a liberal angry? Tell him the truth)
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To: Old Professer

Never knew that about Faraday. Common theme among leaders is they read. I believe Alex Hamilton was this way - reading all the time, spending hours by candlelight pouring over books.


60 posted on 03/31/2009 8:44:50 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
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