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To: Michael Michael
Yes, he said that in the context of Indians. That's what they were arguing about, in response to the proposal that "excluding Indians not taxed" be included in the citizenship clause.

WRONG.

Where, in the text of Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, do the terms, "Indian", "Native American", "indigenous persons","tribe" or even "taxed" appear...? None of those terms appear anywhere in the Citizenship Clause of the Amendment. The clause says, "All persons...".

Trumball was talking about the language of the Citizenship Clause. He read clause verbatim. "All persons..." encompasses immigrants as well as those other groups. And it has to be determined wether they actually fall under the "complete jurisdiction" of the U.S. as defined by the Framers.

At no time does anyone say that a child born to non-citizen parents is someone owing allegiance to anybody else.

No one can determine a newborn's allegiance, one way or another. A child, fresh out of the womb, literally does not have capacity to make those kinds decisions for itself; -a fact fully recognized by the Medical profession as well as the law. Period. A newborn infant is just struggling to absorb all of the new sensory data around it. So it is a moot point. That is why the newborn's status has to be determined through the status of its parents.

And when he speaks of not owing allegiance to anybody else, he is saying it in the context of Indians, who were a completely different class of people than the children of non-citizen parents.

Wrong. The allegiance of immigrants is also something that the law recognizes. That is what our Citizenship Oath is all about; and why it is legally required of immigrants that wish to become citizens.

468 posted on 02/14/2009 1:31:35 AM PST by Cyropaedia ("Virtue cannot separate itself from reality without becoming a principal of evil...".)
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To: Cyropaedia
WRONG.

Where, in the text of Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment, do the terms, "Indian", "Native American", "indigenous persons","tribe" or even "taxed" appear...? None of those terms appear anywhere in the Citizenship Clause of the Amendment. The clause says, "All persons...".

Trumball was talking about the language of the Citizenship Clause.


All of Trumbull's remarks concerning "subject to the jurisdiction" came out of the debates over Senator Doolittle's proposing to include "excluding Indians not taxed" in the citizenship clause so that it would read "All persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, excluding Indians not taxed are citizens of the United States..."

THAT is the context of Trumbull's comments. INDIANS.

Wrong. The allegiance of immigrants is also something that the law recognizes. That is what our Citizenship Oath is all about; and why it is legally required of immigrants that wish to become citizens.

Yes, when immigrants are being NATURALIZED.

The citizenship clause has NOTHING to do with the parents, with the exception of those parents who are ambassadors and diplomats.

The ALLEGIANCE is referring to the PERSONS BORN. NOT their parents.

It's "All persons born... and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," not "All persons born... WHOSE PARENTS are subject to the jurisdiction thereof."


469 posted on 02/14/2009 1:38:46 PM PST by Michael Michael
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