Posted on 01/08/2009 9:26:42 AM PST by AJKauf
“Many Saw Evil,” the posters for the new Tom Cruise film Valkyrie proclaim, “But They Dared to Stop It.” Or tried, at any rate. The members of what is known in Germany as the “July 20th” plot failed, of course, to kill Hitler and were unable to seize power. If this slight exaggeration amounts to wishful thinking, however, the suggestion that the would-be assassin, Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg, and his co-conspirators “saw evil” in the Nazi regime amounts to an outright distortion of the historical record.
In fact, Stauffenberg served the Nazi regime loyally almost to the very end ...
(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...
Hey Londo, since you tried to wipe out the Narns, maybe you shouldn’t be too critical about the Holocaust :-)
His attempt on the "Fuhrer" had nothing to do with the concentration camps with the tall smokestacks in them.
Can you provide a link to back your claim? It would help the debate.
“The motivation of the flick was to ressurect Tom Cruise’s career and make him more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.”
Well, yes of course. Hey, I’m no Tom Cruise fan.
I was just stating what the motivation for the characters was in the movie, not the actors.
He also said that after seeing what the Nazis had wrought, he had no doubts at all why he was over there.
Grandpa only talked about it once, when I was a kid. Wish I had paid more attention....of course at 12 or 14, there's always plenty more time, and plenty more story re-tellings.....but not always.
“Hey Londo, since you tried to wipe out the Narns, maybe you shouldn’t be too critical about the Holocaust :-)”
Mass drivers are very efficient weapons.
I didn't catch the "repeatedly." At one point in the film Stauffenberg/Cruise mentions the killing of Jews in the East as a reason for his disillusionment with Hitler. At another, the plotters talk in more vague terms about what was going on under Hitler: that could mean anything and everything.
There were German officers who were put off by the use of the Wehrmacht in atrocities in the early phase of the Russian campaign. That didn't necessarily mean that they thought Jews shouldn't be persecuted or disadvantaged in different ways. They just didn't want their army to be part of it in any direct way.
It's not impossible that seeing the scope of the exterminationist program made German officers rethink their earlier opinions. More likely though, recognizing that Germany couldn't hold out forever, and that the Allies would take revenge made them change their minds.
I'm not saying that concern for the Jews was a major factor behind the plot. Not at all. But this article stacks the deck a little too much against the film.
That was the reason for trying to kill him. I thought that the general plan was to arrive at a peaceable solution in the west, and enlist the Allies' help in beating back the Russians?
Of the many historical questions raised by “Valkyrie,” the most pressing is this: if General Erich Fellgiebel, the head of the German Army Signal Corps, really had looked and behaved like Eddie Izzard, just how grave a threat would the Nazis have presented to world peace? In Bryan Singer’s new film, Izzard, clearly enjoying every stride in his polished, knee-high boots, does indeed play the officer in question, who oversaw communications going into and out of the Wolfsschanze, or Wolf’s Lair, the Führer’s woodland redoubt.
Kind of catty, but I get what they meant about Eddie.
Many forget that after WWI, the Weimar Republic was a huge CF. According to reports I have read, old women and children were starving in the streets. People loaded up wheelbarrows full of money just to buy a loaf of bread. Food was almost impossible to find in the cities. Many Germans felt they had been betrayed by their leaders regarding the surrender to the allies, there was anger and there was despair.
From other accounts, I have read that the streets became a battleground with Socialists, Marxists, social democrats, Freikorps, Anarchists, etc. fighting for days on end.
Civilians who had never heard a shot fired through all of WWI suddenly found themselves in the middle of a type of civil war.
So, it was no surprise that Adolf and the Boys came along and promised (and delivered) an end to the nightmare that Germany had become, they delivered an end to starvation and restored pride to Germans.
One other point I would like to make here is that in general, the common German soldier was just that. Farm boys, students, laborers and shopkeepers. Very few were party members, and they were given little choice about their future.
Like it or not, these are the facts. It is ironic that Hitler offered “hope and change”, but not ironic that a desperate people facing what they were facing were drawn to someone like Hitler.
The vast majority of Germans had no part in the bad stuff that happened and so there is nothing they need forgiveness for.
Those that perpetrated and participated persecutions and in crimes against humanity, and those who didn't participate but knew and approved (and there were lots of other Euros as well in that category) should never be forgiven.
3,000 abortions a day in the US since 1973, close to 50,000,000 babies now. What will our excuse be?
This was a very good reply to many of the replies in this thread.
I had a Political Science teacher in college who went into great detail explaining how the NSDAP was able to manipulate many factors in the times and German culture to rise to power.
After working with many allied soldiers for 20 years, I know how different other nations are from America. It must always be remembered that Germany was not a united nation until 1870, and that Germans had lived in monarchies for hundreds of years.
Valkyrie was a good movie, but it did leave out a lot of context, for the sake of a manageability. These were serious men who struggled with their decision.
I liked Valkyrie as well. Never a dull a moment. I think it went a long way to explain that MANY Germans were opposed the regime in the highest levels of German society.
I liked the film despite Tom Cruise, who I did not think was very credible playing a German military officer. But, this was his project, so there was no getting around him.
Oh, yes, BTW, if Political Science teachers would teach the following:
1) Nationalist Socialists are Nazis.
2) Internationalist Socialists are Communists
3) American Socialists are Democrats.
I think people would see politics a lot more clearly!
“We ARE Germany...”
- Hauptmann Otto Heidemann, THE BLUE MAX
One of the main plotters was Erich von Witzellben. He plotted to overthrow Hitler in 1938, 1939, and was involved in most of the other plots against Hitler as well. So, while some of the plotters were Johny come lately’s, many of them had resisted the NAZI’s from before the start of WWII.
In Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, William L. Shirer described the night time parade the Nazis held to celebrate the day Hitler was made Chancellor. Three company grade Army officers joined the parade, in full uniform.
In the German Army (as in ours) it was a serious offense for a serving officer to make a public demonstration in support of a political party. But, not wanting to get off on the wrong foot with the new Chancellor, the Gery Army did nothing about this violation of the rules. The first, but not the last time, the Generals tried to trade their integrity for Hitler's approval.
One of the officers who got away with this public demonstration of support for the Nazis was Captain Claus von Satuffenberg.
Exactly. I’m glad that someone else gets it. It’s rare these days.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.