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Ron Paul: Israel had US OK for war on Gaza (Ron Paul sides with Hamas)
Press TV ^ | 1/5/09

Posted on 01/05/2009 11:50:56 AM PST by LdSentinal

Outspoken Republican congressman Ron Paul says Israel had received a green light from the United States to launch an offensive in Gaza.

The Texas congressman said the Israeli attack on the impoverished Gaza Strip shapes a bleak future for the whole world as it means that, "the whole idea of preemptive or preventive war is spreading."

He went on to challenge the idea of Hamas threatening Israel's security and argued that "Palestinian missiles are so minor compared to the fire power of Israel, who has nuclear weapons."

The US Congressman's remarks come as Israel continues to rebuff international efforts to end the assault on Gaza, and Israeli troops and tanks -- protected by heavy air, sea and artillery fire - have sliced through the center of Gaza and surrounded the main city.

The tenth day of the assault brings the number of Palestinian casualties to 530 with over 2,600 others wounded. The UN says that about 25 percent of the casualties were civilian deaths.

Paul added that the escalation of war in Gaza would contribute to the fall of economy on the global stage and in the US, explaining that the US involvement in too many wars is "draining us emotionally and financially".

Congressman Paul said that even though Israel has carried out the invasion of Gaza, "the United States will be blamed for it."

"Israel depends on us; they depend on us economically, they depend on us for their military power and all their weapons and they really got a green light from our administration," he explained.

Paul's comment comes after US vice president Dick Cheney said Israel did not seek Washington's approval for launching an offensive against Gaza.

"They didn't seek clearance or approval from us, certainly," Cheney said Sunday.

Earlier on Saturday, the Israeli website Debkafile cited sources in Washington as saying that US President George W. Bush had given a green light to Prime Minister Ehud Olmert for an all-out military operation in Gaza.

The GOP congressman also warned in July, that any Israeli strike on Iranian nuclear facilities would take place with the explicit backing of the US government.

Paul told Press TV that, "No matter what they do, it is our money, it is our weapons, and they are not going to do it without us approving it."


TOPICS: Israel; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Kentucky; US: Texas; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: bombbombbombbombiran; crazyoldman; demagogue; dhimmi; earmarks4menotthee; earmarks4shrimp; gotshrimp; iran; israel; kentucky; lebanon; lewrockwell; loon; nazi; paleo; paleocon; paleocons; paleocontruthfile; paleolib; paleolibs; paleolibtruthfile; paleos; patbuchanan; patbuchananhatesjews; patrickbuchanan; paul; paulestinian; paulistinian; pitchforkpat; prawn; preciousbodilyfluids; randpaultruthfile; randsconcerntrolls; ronpaul; ronpaultruthfile; senile; texas; waronterror
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To: mnehrling

No, no, no! Those are grounds for Israel to issue a letter of marque to the “Palestinians.”


161 posted on 01/05/2009 3:56:04 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (www.israelsoldiers.org Friends of the IDF, taking care of soldiers, so the IDF can buy more bombs)
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To: Nathan Zachary
RonPaulLooneyTunes
162 posted on 01/05/2009 3:57:01 PM PST by Momma Republican (God bless and protect His children in Israel and the IDF.)
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To: BGHater

This is not about Paul being imperfect, but about him allowing his hatred of Israel driving him to defending terrorists. He is a vile,evil little man who has no place representing this great country.


163 posted on 01/05/2009 3:59:18 PM PST by Momma Republican (God bless and protect His children in Israel and the IDF.)
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To: Momma Republican
Hamas was elected by the citizens of Gaza so they are just as responsible

It doesn't follow. First, not everyone voted for Hamas, second, justice in war distnguishes between combatants and non-combatants regardless of their political views.

164 posted on 01/05/2009 4:00:48 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: hedgetrimmer
LeaveRonPaulAlone
165 posted on 01/05/2009 4:01:51 PM PST by Momma Republican (Ron Paul = Domestic enemy of the United Staes and hater of Israel)
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To: BGHater
I only said no Politician is perfect.

That's a mighty low bar you set. RP is a vile, nasty, hateful old creep.

166 posted on 01/05/2009 4:02:45 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (www.israelsoldiers.org Friends of the IDF, taking care of soldiers, so the IDF can buy more bombs)
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To: GoldenPup

We know that. But the left likes to use him as an example of a “true and principled conservative.”

That’s why we have a duty to repudiate this piece of turd.


167 posted on 01/05/2009 4:03:52 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (www.israelsoldiers.org Friends of the IDF, taking care of soldiers, so the IDF can buy more bombs)
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To: annalex
There is no reason for Israel to sacrifice one Jewish life for the lives of all of the Gaza Strip. We didn't do it in WWII and they shouldn't have to do it now.
168 posted on 01/05/2009 4:04:51 PM PST by Momma Republican (Ron Paul = Domestic enemy of the United Staes and hater of Israel)
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To: Momma Republican

You are entitled to your opinion, but it is not what the doctine of just war says.


169 posted on 01/05/2009 4:07:16 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: Momma Republican

Did I say that? No. But since you appear not to have a cogent thought process, I guess posting false pictures is the best you can do as a ‘momma’ republican.


170 posted on 01/05/2009 4:10:00 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: NYC GOP Chick

Are you really GOP? When did the GOP adopt the tactics of the communists and leftists?


171 posted on 01/05/2009 4:11:05 PM PST by hedgetrimmer
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To: annalex
Preemptive it is not, but the Israeli response is vastly disproportionate.

Isn't that the point of war -- to crush the enemy both to punish them and teach them that attacking (Israel) is a really bad idea with significant and unpleasant consequences?

I never served in the military, but I always thought the point of going to war is to win, not play to a tie.

172 posted on 01/05/2009 4:14:12 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (www.israelsoldiers.org Friends of the IDF, taking care of soldiers, so the IDF can buy more bombs)
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To: dennisw

And that’s different from him, how?


173 posted on 01/05/2009 4:18:37 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (www.israelsoldiers.org Friends of the IDF, taking care of soldiers, so the IDF can buy more bombs)
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To: hedgetrimmer
Yes, Navy, Vietnam '66-'68.

GHW Bush, Clintoon, and GW Bush were not subjects of the thread. I did not realize that US defense policy and rules of engagement were binding on Israel, and enforceable by a Congressman. You will have to ask the ex-presidents the why of all this as I cannot explain it.

I have no personal distaste for Ron Paul, and the quote from the article fits his recent pattern of political behavior.

I might take Ron more seriously if he would regularly lay around in a lawn chair outside all day, in Siderot.

174 posted on 01/05/2009 4:25:59 PM PST by Navy Patriot (John McCain, the Manchurian Candidate, makes a Marxist President.)
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To: annalex
For example, if the objective is to eliminate a military threat, it is proportionate to destroy weapons, supply routes and military personnel, but not government structures or civilian areas.

But what happens when the government IS the terrorists, as in the case of Hamas in Gaza?

And then there's the fact that the oh so manly terrorists hide among civilians. Whether you want to accept it or not, the IDF has been quite accurate in pinpointing the terrorists and minimizing civilian casualties as best as they can.

175 posted on 01/05/2009 4:28:20 PM PST by NYC GOP Chick (www.israelsoldiers.org Friends of the IDF, taking care of soldiers, so the IDF can buy more bombs)
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To: NYC GOP Chick

The point of war is to achieve the objective of war. It might be to wipe out a certain group of people, but more commonly it is to reduce the enemy’s military, bring about a political reform, and achieve lasting peace.

The just war principles are several. First, the objective of the war must be legitimate compared to the fault of the party against which the war is waged. Genocide, for example, is not considered a legitimate war objective regardless of the gravity of offense. There are other principles I never got to mention on the thread, such as the likelihood of success and unavailability of peaceful means of acheiving a satisfiactory outcome.

Secondly, once the objective of the war is found to be just, its methods are to be just also. Two more principles come into play: discrimination between combatants and non-combatants, and proportionality. Proprotionality does not mean that one should not fight to win; in fact, if the cause of the war is just, one must fight to win. Proportionality means that the military force applied should be sufficient but not exceed the amount of suffering needed to reach the objective. For example, if the objective is to plug supply routes, blowing up apartment blocks and killing as many people as possible has nothing to do with it, but a regime change is likely necessary.


176 posted on 01/05/2009 4:41:31 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: NYC GOP Chick

I think, regime change is a legitimate goal for Israel, and the mingling of combatants with civilians is the challenge for them, and both tasks can be acheived with a ground invasion, while aerial bombardment only strengthens Hamas and the civilian resolve.

US, and by extension Israel have boxed themselves in by deifying democracy. The result was legitimately elected Hamas. Parenthetically, we nearly avoided a democratically elected anti-American government in Iraq and got one in Iran.


177 posted on 01/05/2009 4:48:15 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
You are entitled to your opinion, but it is not what the doctine of just war says.

Israeli foreign policy doesn't fall within the purview of the liberal wing of The Roman Catholic Church.

It is actually you who are entitled to your opinion.

178 posted on 01/05/2009 4:48:29 PM PST by Chunga (Vote Republican)
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To: Chunga

I didn’t express my opinions. I expressed the Just War theory that has been normative for the civilized world for centuries. Yes, like much in our civilization, it originated with the Catholic Church.


179 posted on 01/05/2009 4:53:41 PM PST by annalex (http://www.catecheticsonline.com/CatenaAurea.php)
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To: annalex
US, and by extension Israel have boxed themselves in by deifying democracy.

Your hyperbole is revealing.

180 posted on 01/05/2009 4:54:15 PM PST by Chunga (Vote Republican)
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