Posted on 12/23/2008 12:09:15 AM PST by goldstategop
Given our preoccupation with politics and economics, it is easy to forget that for most of us micro issues still play a greater role in our lives. So here are some thoughts that, as heretical as they might sound, have been found extremely helpful, sometimes even marriage-saving, from listeners to my radio show, which features a male-female hour every week.
The subject is one of the most common problems that besets marriages: the wife who is not in the mood and the consequently frustrated and hurt husband.
There are marriages with the opposite problem -- a wife who is frustrated and hurt because her husband is rarely in the mood. But, as important and as destructive as that problem is, it has different causes and different solutions, and is therefore not addressed here. What is addressed is the far more common problem of He wants, she doesn't want.
It is an axiom of contemporary marital life that if a wife is not in the mood, she need not have sex with her husband. Here are some arguments why a woman who loves her husband might want to rethink this axiom.
First, women need to recognize how a man understands a wifes refusal to have sex with him: A husband knows that his wife loves him first and foremost by her willingness to give her body to him. This is rarely the case for women. Few women know their husband loves them because he gives her his body (the idea sounds almost funny). This is, therefore, usually a revelation to a woman. Many women think men's natures are similar to theirs, and this is so different from a woman's nature, that few women know this about men unless told about it.
This is a major reason many husbands clam up. A man whose wife frequently denies him sex will first be hurt, then sad, then angry, then quiet. And most men will never tell their wives why they have become quiet and distant. They are afraid to tell their wives. They are often made to feel ashamed of their male sexual nature, and they are humiliated (indeed emasculated) by feeling that they are reduced to having to beg for sex.
When first told this about men, women generally react in one or more of five ways:
1. You have to be kidding. That certainly isn't my way of knowing if he loves me. There have to be deeper ways than sex for me to show my husband that I love him.
2. If this is true, men really are animals.
3. Not my man. He knows I love him by the kind and loving way I treat him.
4. You have it backwards. If he truly loved me, he wouldnt expect sex when I'm not in the mood.
5. I know this and that's why I rarely say no to sex.
Lets deal with each of these responses.
1. You have to be kidding.
The most common female reaction to hearing about men's sexual nature is incredulity, often followed by denial. These are entirely understandable reactions given how profoundly different -- and how seemingly more primitive -- men's sexual nature is compared to women's.
Incredulity is certainly the reaction most women have when first being told that a man knows he is loved when his wife gives him her body. The idea that the man she is married to, let alone a man whose intelligence she respects, will to any serious extent measure her love of him by such a carnal yardstick strikes many women as absurd and even objectionable.
But the question that should matter to a woman who loves her man is not whether this proposition speaks poorly or well of male nature. It is whether it is true. And it is true beyond anything she can imagine. A woman who often deprives her husband of her body is guaranteed to injure him and to injure the marriage -- no matter what her female friends say, no matter what a sympathetic therapist says, and no matter what her man says. (Very few men will confess to the amount of hurt and eventual anger they experience when repeatedly denied sex).
Of course, there are times when a man must simply refrain from initiating sex out of concern for his wife's physical or emotional condition. And then there are men for whom sex rarely has anything to do with making love or whose frequency of demands are excessive. (What excessive means ought to be determined by the couple before the refusals begin, or continue.) But the fact remains: Your man knows you love him by your willingness to give him your body.
2. If this is true, men really are animals.
Correct. Compared to most women's sexual nature, men's sexual nature is far closer to that of animals. So what? That is the way he is made. Blame God and nature. Telling your husband to control it is a fine idea. But he already does. Every man who is sexually faithful to his wife already engages in daily heroic self-control. He has married knowing he will have to deny his sexual natures desire for variety for the rest of his life. To ask that he also regularly deny himself sex with the one woman in the world with whom he is permitted sex is asking far too much. Deny him enough times and he may try to fill this need with another woman. If he is too moral to ever do that, he will match your sexual withdrawal with emotional and other forms of withdrawal.
3. Not my man.
Many women will argue, understandably, My husband knows I love him. He doesn't need me to have sex with him to know that. And this is especially so when Im too tired or just don't want sex. Anyway, my man only enjoys sex with me when I'm into it, too.
The importance of mutual kindness to a marriage is impossible to overstate. But while necessary, it is not sufficient. Women can understand this by applying the same rule to men. Most women will readily acknowledge that it is certainly not enough for a man to be kind to her. If it were, women would rarely reject kind men as husband material. But as much as a woman wants a kind man, she wants more than that. If a man is, let us say, lacking in ambition or just doesn't want to work hard, few women will love him no matter how kind he is. In fact, most women would happily give up some kindness for hard work and ambition. A kind man with little ambition is not masculine, therefore not desirable to most women.
Likewise, a kind woman who is not sexual with her husband is not feminine. She is a kind roommate.
Furthermore, a woman who denies the man she loves sex is not kind.
4. You have it backward.
Every rational and decent man knows there are times when he should not initiate sex. In a marriage of good communication, a man would either know when those times are or his wife would tell him (and she needs to -- women should not expect men to read their minds. He is her man, not her mother.)
But, to repeat the key point, rejection of sex should happen infrequently. And it should almost never be dependent on mood -- see Part II next week.
5. I know this and that's why I rarely say no to my husband.
This is a wise woman. She knows a sexually fulfilled husband is a happy husband. (At the same time, men need to recognize that complete sexual fulfillment is unattainable in this world.) And because a happy husband loves his wife more, this cycle of love produces a happy home.
In Part II, I will explain in detail why mood should play little or no role in a woman's determining whether she has sex with her husband.
I conclude Part I with this clarification: Everything written here applies under two conditions: 1. The woman is married to a good man. 2. She wants him to be a happy husband. If either condition is not present, nothing written here matters. But if you are a woman who loves your husband, what is written here can be the most important thing you will read concerning your marriage. Because chances are the man you love won't tell you.
/8^)
Great points...
Excellent analysis.
Reconsider? Sexuality is not something you weigh and set like selecting a computer’s features.
Men remaining single is not helpful to any community; look what’s become of our inner cities!
Men do sacrifice quietly, in your words. Prager is just saying it comes to no good where sex is concerned, whether we like it or not. That is why he points out that nature won’t change for “greater goods” or anything else. Thus, he warns not to mistake the silence of men for acceptance.
The mood thing should be an interesting read.
Isn’t the fundamental issue really just a matter of pitting the way things are (author’s premise) against the way things might be (dissenters’ premise)? If male sexuality and motivation are essentially adjustable, rational, mediated by depth of relationship, then the author’s points are debatable. If not, then the dissent is nonsense. Simple...
My ex could have written that. She denied me for well over a year while I did all the “right” things. She finally had to have our pastor say, “you know, withholding sex is a form of sexual abuse”. She was done with him. For her it was a control issue. I would have loved for her to read this article but, frankly, I strongly believe her response would have been like yours. To be fair, I think it was partly her upbringing that led to it, but after 20 years of marriage and 18 years in the same Assembly of God church, she up and divorced my completely out of the blue.
I was faithful, I was loving (you see, I took SERIOUSLY what the counselors told us) and as a Christian, divorce was out of the question - for me. It was going to work or I was going to die trying.
Meanwhile I have been married to my wife for 10 years and the honeymoon aint over. And we are both just shy of 55! For her, foreplay is how I treat her throughout the day.
I honestly did not know a man could be as sexually fulfilled as I am. I also used to look at chick films as “science fiction for women”. I now know there are people that actually LIVE those love stories. My wife and I are. That is why the movies bring me to tears. I relate to the characters.
I also understand the wisdom behind the biblical description of marrieage. Women that deny sex to their men are doing a serious disservice to him, herself and their children. It will be visited on multiple generations.
I could go on but I have already said more than I probably should have.
Bottom line is this: If a person is blaming the marital problems on their spouse, they don’t get it, period.
SERIOUS abuse notwithstanding.*
*The word abuse has been so diluted by many womens groups today that all men (and women), with the exception of Jesus Himself, fit the definition of “abuser”. That helps nobody. Abuser=human
>>He makes married sex sound like something that is a given, paid for one time on the wedding day. <<
That puts him in good company, because it IS.
1 Corinthians 7: 1-7
Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife’s body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband’s body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. I say this as a concession, not as a command. I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
Hocndoc, you could not be more wrong.
It is also why I believe the word rape has no meaning between a married couple. Rape is forced sex. Forced means without permission. She (and he) gave permission in their wedding vows. Now don’t get me wrong. A man who “forces” sex onto his wife is not acting in a loving way, but rape it aint.
...or look like they are. If she plotted a sarcastic embargo, in advance, with a mock sex toy, LOL!
>>A man whose wife frequently denies him sex will first be hurt, then sad, then angry, then quiet.
Then on the prowl.<<
Bingo!
>>6. Then there’s the woman who knows that if her husband truly wanted sex, he’d have taken out the trash and helped with the dishes.<<
That makes it payment. How about if he slips her a $20 instead. It’s probably overpaying but whadayagonnado...
>>When it comes to sexual relations between a committed couple, it is important to both sexes to understand that denial is a serious dysfunction of the relationship.<<
So true. I am very thankful that I am blessed to have a relationship where neither of us would EVER deny to the other. It is a mutual love and respect thing - which seems to lead to more than enough desire.
>>he’d have taken out the trash and helped with the dishes.
That’s porn for women, right there. <<
NO wonder my wife can’t keep my hands off me. :)
But seriously, we sort of do it for each other. And the more we do it, the easier it gets.
>>he’d have taken out the trash and helped with the dishes.
That’s porn for women, right there. <<
NO wonder my wife can’t keep her hands off me. :)
But seriously, we sort of do it for each other. And the more we do it, the easier it gets.
They don’t think that is going to inspire women. It is simply a statement of fact. They have to release that. Expecting them not to is no different than expecting you to not urinate for days at a time. It is a body function/
Joe you are a great men:) And even tho’ your kids go ewwwwwwwwwwww, it is good for them to see that because you are teaching your sons how to treat their wives and your daughters how to accept a man’s love. All 5 of my children are married and have fantastic relationships and all 5 have told me that it is due to the model we sat for them. They go EWWWWWWWWWW, but they love it:)
>>Does, “I need to drain my prostate on a regular basis,” work well at attracting women?<<
Yikes! This article is about sex within marriage. I hope he’s not trying to attract women!
Not sure how many Freepers under the age of 35 are reading this thread, but here’s a tip;
Get your finances in order. My wife and I have been married almost 9 years with 3 kids age 2-6.
Removing financial stress from our household has done wonders for her libido. Since we rarely have money fights, we rarely fight at all. When we were young and broke, every minor crisis carried with it a financial crisis and it weighed on her much more than it did me.
I was shocked at how receptive my wife became once that burden was lifted. Just a thought....
There’s a reason we have laws against suicide attempts, self-harm and spousal rape. Because people will and do abuse anything, even themselves.
My husband used to think the way that you do, but the FLDS child bride rapes made him rethink the issue.
Notice: Paul did not say that there could not be abuse, he encouraged abstinence and failing that, mutual giving, with concurrent agreement (or permission, consent).
I agree with you completely. I just don’t understand all these women that don’t have a healthy drive.
First of all, these women need to have their hormones checked by a forward-thinking doctor who cares about quality of life and not just disease, and if their hormone levels are not optimal (no BS about “that’s normal for YOUR AGE or that’s normal for WOMEN ON THE PILL”!!), then they should be given bioidentical, transdermal hormones. They do not cause cancer, they actually LENGTHEN life, and they certainly would make you want to live longer. (Only artificial, oral hormone replacement causes cancer.)
I love your description and I feel it’s the same for men AND women.
I don’t know why Dennis thinks it’s always the man who loves sex. Maybe in his case, or maybe he’s marrying the wrong women!
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