Posted on 12/09/2008 6:32:38 AM PST by Mobile Vulgus
Well. I am sure that this is going to anger some of you. But, I have to say it anyway…
OK, I have basically stayed silent about this whole Obama birth certificate dust up until now because I have been trying to resolve the dichotomy in my mind between being a Constitutional constructionist and a pragmatist. But, at long last I have realized that the two really aren't as much at odds as it might seem. In fact, I found my answer in the words of Thomas Jefferson -- as well as Madison, Franklin and a few others, but we'll stick with Jefferson quotes for the sake of a sharply focused discussion.
I have discovered that Thomas Jefferson has already told us upon which side we as conservatives should descend over the question concerning Barack Obama's birth certificate and his eligibility for the office of president of the United States. Mister Jefferson would tell you all to shut up, accept cruel fate, and get ready to claim Barack Obama as the 44th president of the United States of America.
That's right, forget about it. Move on. Nothing to see here.
Before you get your Constitutional shorts in a bunch, I absolutely agree with you that we are a nation of laws and not men. Jefferson did too, once saying that we must consider what the original intent of the Constitution was before we rush into a decision and the original intent in this case was clearly to make sure every president was a natural born citizen of this country before being eligible to run for that highest of offices. ("The Constitution on which our Union rests, shall be administered ... according to the safe and honest meaning contemplated by the plain understanding of the people of the United States at the time of its adoption -- a meaning to be found in the explanations of those who advocated [for it]..."-- Thomas Jefferson)
The simple reason that the founders wanted the president to be a natural born citizen was because they were keen students of history. The phrase "let history be our guide" was not just a trope. The founders knew well the many instances when a foreign ruler had entered a country and, using that country's own laws and customs, immorally proclaimed himself the ruler of a subjugated nation. The founders wanted to prevent that possibility and also wanted to make sure that there were no divided loyalties in an American president, that the welfare of the USA would be first and foremost in the mind of anyone elected to that office. What better way than to preclude the foreign born?
So, yes, the proscriptions against the foreign born candidate are important and should not be cast aside. We should never knowingly present a candidate not born as a citizen of the U.S. Further, we should take pains to verify the provenance of every candidate's claim to natural citizenship.
But... and you knew the “but” was coming. There is an original intent that rises above the Constitution itself. In fact, there are a few, but one in particular comes to bear here...
Read the rest at Publiusforum.com...
Reluctantly, I think at this point the election should stand notwithstanding the birth status of His Majesty. Here’s why:
Suppose the lawsuits succeed and O is not allowed to take office. Also assume there are no riots or unrest. Biden becomes president (or Pelosi, depending on how the Supreme Court rules on that one) .
Congress will immediately propose a constitutional amendment to “fix the problem”, and in this day and age the amendment will be quickly ratified by enough states to take effect. Biden then appoints Obama as vice president, then resigns, allowing His Highness to take the throne again.
Or worse, the states will call the constitutional convention the liberals have been longing for all these years, where they can fix all the mistakes the founders made; like the 2nd amendment and that “natural born citizen” problem.
Face it, either way O gets to be president. Elections have consequences.
All though the US doesnt have a monarchy, I am sure they wanted to guard against foreign rulers being elected having split loyalties in our head of state.
I think the job falls on the congress to vet this guy. If they don’t, and he is sworn in, my flag will fly upside down until they do.
Do we commit suicide with the letter of the law even when the people voted for their man in good faith?
...
Of course, Obama’s foreign birth, if it comes to be true, will undermine his presidency. But better to have a single president’s legitimacy undermined due to his actions than to undermine the entire electoral process.
...
Sorry to ruin your party but my wife is a naturalized U.S. citizen and she has never! had to produce those documents except to get a passport, Not even when she registered to vote were they required. Having a U.S. Passport does not mean you are a “natural born” citizen of the United States.
Ravenstar
Well, no the President doesn't have the authority to specifically instruct a State governor to seal and hide a document that was issued by that State and has no on the federal gov't, does he? This seems to be a case of the Hawaii governor going along with something she didn't have to, but CHOSE to....
I agree that there is something suspicious going on here. I don't think it's that he doesn't have a birth certificate. Now, there may well be something ON the birth certificate that Obama and his people don't want made known.
That locus was in the will of the people. ... Over 39 million voted to place Barack Obama in the White House. There is no doubt that the people have spoken.
He completely misses it.
Yes, the will of the people rules - but we have established procedures for processing & implementing the will of the people, which is done thru the amendment process, NOT mob-rule popular vote.
If the will of the people is to let foreign-born people serve as President, then get enough states to agree and otherwise complete the full process for Consitutional amendment - THEN vote for the guy.
As the Constitution stands now, O is disqualified. Either change the rules or drop O as a candidate for office ... but don't just change the rules because a lot of people who never even read the Constitution said they want him.
You said — We’re not talking about Iraq and Afghanistan pal, and don’t forget that “charity begins at home”.
It’s the same “tree of liberty” that Bush says he is promoting around the world...
“If you want to shut me up... you had better be armed”
I do not know who said it first... but I live by it.
LLS
>If he is not a citizen by birth, then he defrauded the American people and they would not like that one damn bit.<
Don’t be too sure of that. I don’t think that the black voters would have cared if he came from Timbuktu and many of the white voters were pumped up with hatred for Bush. Also remember whom he was competing with. No one to write home about.
I really cannot see anything in the birth provision, but the spirit of it. An aborigine in Australia can be a bigger American patriot than a native born Spy (as there have been many) for the (ex)Soviets. A Finnish born Professor can be 10000 more qualified than an illiterate Virginia-born donkey-groomer. What remains? Trust. Make sure you can trust your candidate, above and beyond the piddling matters of day to day politics.
So, okay, he’s in on a technicality. But do we trust him after he failed to take this constitutional test in such away that only the craziest of the crazies (those still doubting Nixon’s birth certificate) would still be yammering?
The Spirit of the constitution worked great. It caught a foreigner... not necessarily foreign-born (who knows?), but someone who thought it a nusiance to show his own birth certificate and preferred to see it go all the way to the Supreme Court... which is about as weird as taking the slow boat to China to buy your potatoes instead of going to the corner market.
The constitution caught a foreigner... The writer suggests the Americans be pragmatic. There’s hardly a more pragmatic people on the face of the earth. And that’s why you can be sure that the Constitution caught a foreigner, whereas those in charge let themselves be fooled.
The constitution did a great Job. He’s definitely a foreigner... and with such comportment, would be in any democratic country in the world.
What's new with that? Nobody has seen his school records either, maybe they list him as a foreign student on a F1 visa. You have to agree with one thing, not having seen any kind of records from BHO does not mean a thing!
Can you get a passport if you were born in another country to an American mother? You would have some sort of birth certificate. I don’t know the answer, but I don’t think the argument is that he’s not an American Citizen.
Yeah, but there's no evidence, nor has the suggestion ever been made, that Obama is a naturalised citizen. Therefore, he is either a native-born citizen, or else he is an illegal immigrant. As such, the ONLY way he would have gotten said passports would have been for him to be able to produce a real birth certificate, since he would not have had naturalisation documentation.
>I have three points...obey the law, obey the law and obey the law!<
Apparently, in this case, the law is only obeyed when it is enforced by the SCOTUS and the supremes won’t touch the case with a 10-foot pole.
You CAN get a passport if you are born in another country to TWO foreign parents, provided you become a naturalized citizen. That's my case. Now, if having a US passport is enough to qualify someone to run for president, I want to run in 2012! I feel I'm more of a patriot than many people in this thread.
You don’t know that and if I can believe the news which I admit is suspect but wasn’t he raised in Indonesia as a citizen???? or is that part of his life just lies??? It is a question that should be answered. If he is the solution is simple why hide it???? He is not royalty, you produce the required document just as I have to present it.
Ravenstar
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Repeat and rinse.
LLS
I thought they could only release the BC if the person in question (Obama in this case) gave permission. I don’t think this has anything to do with him being President Elect, I thought that was HI state law.
At any rate, it seems clear (to me) that there is something he doesn’t want seen. I initially thought maybe his parents were not married, but really, in today’s world, would that really be an issue? I don’t know what else it could be.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.