Replies

DU:Mormons are not "Orthodox Christians" because we do not believe in the Trinity and we do not trace our authority to the Catholic church, nor do we claim that all Christians have the authority to go start their own church...

Colofornian: Don't stop there with the key distinctions...

I'll do my best:

Colofornian: ...how about that Mormons believe in many gods?...

As many as the Bible defines in 1 correnthians 8:5, however, we only worship the god of Abraham, and of Issac and of Jacob, he is our God.

Colofornian: ...that Mormons trace their "authority" to what was revealed to a 14 yo lad (or 16 depending on which version of his "first vision" you believe in)...

Actually, if anyone cares to actually read the account, Joseph smith was in his fifteenth year (fourteen to those who don't know), and it's clear the revelations came from God to Joseph.

Colofornian: ...that Mormons believe their elder spirit brothers from a spiritual pre-existence were Jesus and Lucifer...

We believe what Jesus said in john 20:17, however, we recognize that Jesus is the only begotten of the father, we are not his children in the flesh but spiritually, thus Jesus is indeed our brother for we share the same father but in a different way than is "normal". We simply believe what Jesus said about it.

Colofornian: ...that Mormons believe that father-god was once a man...

That is a logical conclusion, but it is not "doctrine". The conclusion is based on the promise in the bible that we can become heirs to the kingdom then it is logical that God may have inherited the kingdome the same way, but it's just a theory.

Colofornian: ...that Mormons believe they, too, either are already gods or can become one...

That's because, the Bible says so... Romans 8:16-17. if you are an heir to the kingdom of God...

DU: Mormons believe that all who believe in and accept as their savior Jesus Christ are Christians.

Colofornian: Yes, but then on the basis of Joseph Smith's first vision, found in Mormon scripture Pearl of Great Price, Joseph Smith - History, verses 18-20... it proceeds to label these Christians as "corrupt" (all of them); and as having 100% creeds which are supposedly an "abomination" unto the Mormon god.

The creed is condemned, The teachers of the creed are condemned because they are leading people astray, the people who have been misled by it need to repent of this herisy.

du: We believe they have not had the full truth available to them...

Colofornian: Well, how nice of you to slander the Bible as being less-than-forthright of God's prime AND comprehensive truths! (Need we call any more Mormon witnesses to the stand than somebody who slyly yet openly condemns the supposed "shortcomings" of the Holy Bible???)

Is the Bible perfect and inerrant? The book fo momron is not either. They were both perfect as they came from the lips of God to his prophets. Men have done their imperfect best to translate the Bible from it's native tongues. Other men have done their imperfect best to preserve those texts. As soon as you run a perfect work through imperfect men you get an imperfect work. Earlier in this thread an anti-Mormon said it was not demeaning to speak the truth.

There are error in the bible, but they are the fault of men, even men who did their best are not perfect for there is only one perfect, and he has not yet returned to us.

CF, I find it amazing that you and those on your side will employ tactics that;
A) could be employed against any religion (like saying things they believe in a way to make them seem un-biblical, when they clearly are Biblical)
B) would have you howling for blood if used on you.
C) are so Christlike that you cannot pretend to be charitable while saying them.

Have a good night CF

There are error in the bible, but they are the fault of men, even men who did their best are not perfect for there is only one perfect, and he has not yet returned to us.

Yup!

That's what YOUR Organization claims!

Oh... in my BoM 1981 edition, on the page with the introduction (4th sheet from front) has these lines...

"The record is now published in many languages as a new and additional witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of the living God and that all who will come unto him and obey the laws and ordinances of his gospel may be saved.

Concerning this record the Prophet Joseph Smith said: "I told the brethern that the Book of Mormon was the most correct of any book on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book."

Then I find, just 4 pages past that, under A BRIEF EXPLANATION ABOUT THE BOOK OF MORMON, I found this at the bottom of the page...

About this edition: Some minor errors in the text have been perpetrated in past editions of the Book of Mormon. This edition contains corrections that seem appropriate to bring the material into conformity with prepublication manuscripts and early editions edited by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

Interesting!

...however, we only worship the god of Abraham, and of Issac and of Jacob, he is our God.

Delf, there's FOUR Book of Mormon verses that explicitly talk about worshipping Jesus. (Do I need to trot them out for you?) That doesn't include the many verses in the Bible that explicitly discusses the same thing.

Bruce R. McConkie, LDS apostle, recognized this as well: “The Father and the Son are the objects of all true worship...No one can worship the Father without worshipping the Son… It is proper to worship the Father, in the name of the Son, and also to worship the Son.” (McConkie, MD, p. 848)

So, again, how many "gods" do you worship?

That is a logical conclusion, but it is not "doctrine". The conclusion is based on the promise in the bible that we can become heirs to the kingdom then it is logical that God may have inherited the kingdome the same way, but it's just a theory.

So do Lorenzo Snow couplet "theories" galore get published (along with Smith 1844 funeral sermons), commonly get placed in all the major basic theology publications of the LDS church? BYU prof Stephen Robinson, in his book, HOW WIDE THE DIVIDE, conceded this was official LDS doctrine...just not canonized.

That's because, the Bible says so... Romans 8:16-17. if you are an heir to the kingdom of God...

So an "heir" = godhood, eh? Then, since God created Hell and since He is leaving this piece of "real estate" to his "heirs", Lucifer & his demons (& Hitler & many others)...I guess Lucifer, demons, Hitler, etc. also are "gods" according to your definition of "heir," eh?