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To: Zakeet
Delphiuser: Mormons believe in Jesus Christ ... Mormons are not "Orthodox Christians" but they are most definitely Christian.

Zakeet: Muslims believe in Jesus Christ, but they aren't Christian.

Please read my responses on this thread wherein I list some of the enormous differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity HERE and HERE and let me know where I am mistaken.


Let me see, I'm a Mormon. I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. Muslims Believe Jesus was a prophet but not the savior. (So he was a lying prophet?) they do not qualify as Christian for they do not claim to be Christian and do not accept Jesus as their savior. I do accept and proclaim him as my savior, I am a Christian.

As to your post(s) Utah Lighthouse ministry is an anti site. Mormonism Research ministry, another anti site. Their purpose is to destroy our religion, and you want to use them in a debate as a source to be debated? are you serious? The JOD is not a Mormon Scripture, it is a collection of sermons, I suppose all collections of sermons from Evangelicals are valid fodder for the debate... so, you would consider the Rev Jeremiah wright as a good example of Protestantism, or maybe Fred Phelps? Get real.

As to your second post, Seen it, debunked it on other threads, There is only one completely true statement in the lot. (We Believe in Baptism for the Dead, Which is Biblical).

You want refutation, fine, Go to may personal page on Free republic, here, read it top to bottom, follow the links, then go to EDWARD WATSON'S WEBWORLD and do the same.

Consider yourself "corrected".
478 posted on 12/04/2008 8:15:09 AM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Their purpose is to destroy our religion...

Gee...

Ol' Joe managed to do THAT all by himself!!

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”
 


And with NO data to back him up!

496 posted on 12/04/2008 9:19:39 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: DelphiUser
As to your post(s) Utah Lighthouse ministry is an anti site. ... Their purpose is to destroy our religion, and you want to use them in a debate as a source to be debated? are you serious?

I have found Utah Lighthouse Ministry far more credible than the LDS Church

For example, on the matter of the First Vision, the Tanner's have documented with annotations direct from Mormon historical documents the nine different versions of the vision. You can review them at your convenience HERE, where you will see rather profound differences. You will also note the first account did not appear until 1830-31 – and the official account did not appear until 1838 – a full eighteen years after it purportedly happened and at the exact moment when Joseph Smith greatly needed a magnificent event to shore up his authority and silence critics.

Mark Hofmann was a documents forger who foisted several dozen fake documents onto Mormon Church Leadership. Hofmann's amazing discoveries were purchased by devout Mormons and the donated to the Church. Writings favorable to Mormonism were placed on prominent display – writings deemed damaging to the cause were secreted away.

Hofmann's most famous fabrication was the Salamander Letter. In this writing, supposedly by Book of Mormon Witness Martin Harris, a tenth version of the First Vision surfaced. Fortunately for the Mormon Church, the first account of the visitation was extended back in time a full five years to the mid-1820's. Unfortunately for the Church, in this telling Joseph was visited by an elf who took the form of a salamander.

Mormon leadership verified the authenticity of the letter, apparently relying in large part on the opinion of forensic documents examiners. Based on his vast knowledge of Mormonism, Gerald Tanner on the other hand immediately denounced the document as a fraud. Tanner was proven right.

The effects of the Salamander Letter haunt the Mormon Church to this day.

As can be seen in the photograph above, two Mormon Prophets, Spencer Kimball and Gordon Hinckley, were among the duped.

President Hinckley would later candidly admit:

I accepted [Hofmann] to come into my office on a basis of trust … I frankly admit that Hofmann tricked us. He also tricked experts from New York to Utah, however … I am not ashamed to admit that we were victimized. It is not the first time the Church has found itself in such a position. Joseph Smith was victimized again and again. The Savior was victimized. I am sorry to say that sometimes it happens. – Dew, S. (1996). Go Forward with Faith: The Biography of Gordon B. Hinckley. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Company, p. 432.

But according to LDS doctrine at the time, this was impossible.

In his February 26, 1980 speech at BYU titled Fourteen Fundamentals in Following the Prophet, LDS President Ezra Taft Benson maintained the Mormon Church President spoke with inerrant authority on "any matter, temporal or spiritual ," was "not required to have any particular earthly training or credentials to speak on any subject or act on any matter at any time," and "would never lead the Church astray".

Following the Hofmann debacle, less than a decade after President Benson's pronouncement, an embarrassed Mormon Church was forced to proclaim:

Prophets are mortal men who have been ordained and chosen by God to be a mouthpiece for revelation and guidance, but that revelation only comes when God wills it, making it somewhat sporadic in both ancient and modern times. There is no expectation that every act, every decision, and every purchase by a prophet will be divinely and infallibly guided. As Joseph Smith said, "a prophet is only a prophet when acting as such." – Jeff Lindsay, The Salamander Letter and Mark Hofmann

The incident also led to the founding and naming of the Salamander Society, an organization founded by disgruntled Mormons for the purpose of Lampooning the LDS faith.

If you desire, I would be pleased to provide additional examples where the Tanner's were more truthful and/or accurate than LDS church leaders.

507 posted on 12/04/2008 9:47:27 AM PST by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
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