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LHC Might Not Be Back Online Until 2010 or Later (Large Hadron Collider)
Gizmodo ^ | 12/1/08 | Mark Wilson

Posted on 12/01/2008 6:10:28 PM PST by LibWhacker

When the LHC first went down, it was believed that repairs could get the system up and running by April 2009. Then we saw repairs pushing the timeline back to summer 2009. But now, CERN has arrived at a fork in the road regarding LHC repairs.

According to spokesperson James Gillies, the complicated repairs can be simplified into modest Plan A and Plan B approach.

Plan A is a quick and dirty fix, getting the particle accelerator online as quickly as possible (late summer 2009) at the cost of operating at lower power. In this scenario, 3 of 8 pressure relief-system segments are replaced (only the broken ones) with the other 5 getting upgraded at unsaid maintenance dates in the future.

Plan B is the more extensive but also more delayed approach, requiring the complete redesign and replacement of the LHC's entire pressure-relief system. Under this scenario, the LHC wouldn't go online until 2010 at the earliest, though at that time the system could operate at full power.

As of right now, the team is moving ahead with Plan A in the interest of getting data as soon as possible. Since we have absolutely no way of knowing which course of action is best, we'll just support whatever the crazy physics geniuses decide.


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collider; fermilab; godparticle; hadron; hadroncollider; higgsboson; lhc; online; science; supercollider; tevatron

1 posted on 12/01/2008 6:10:29 PM PST by LibWhacker
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To: LibWhacker

I hear it’s supposed to go live on December 21, 2012. ;^)


2 posted on 12/01/2008 6:12:10 PM PST by SlowBoat407 (Do not read this tagline.)
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To: LibWhacker

Very disappointing. If Tevatron finds Higgs before LHC comes online heads will roll.


3 posted on 12/01/2008 6:22:45 PM PST by TheWasteLand
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To: LibWhacker

Geez...and in my prediction on the “Prediction 2009 Thread”, I said the LHC would be back up in mid 2009.

So THAT one’s busted already!


4 posted on 12/01/2008 6:25:50 PM PST by hoagy62 (PAGF Charter member)
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To: LibWhacker
complete redesign and replacement of the LHC's entire pressure-relief system

I hope they designed the physics experiments better than they designed the hardware...

5 posted on 12/01/2008 6:27:28 PM PST by LibFreeOrDie (Obama promised a gold mine, but he will give us the shaft.)
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To: SlowBoat407
I hear it’s supposed to go live on December 21, 2012. ;^)

Here is a preview of what to expect:

http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html

6 posted on 12/01/2008 6:37:14 PM PST by Jeff F (austinaero; Phoenix11; WaterBoard)
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To: LibWhacker

bump


7 posted on 12/01/2008 6:39:40 PM PST by Captain Beyond (The Hammer of the gods! (Just a cool line from a Led Zep song))
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To: LibWhacker

Strange, I don’t recall Airbus being involved in this project.


8 posted on 12/01/2008 6:46:39 PM PST by lafroste (gravity is not a force. See my profile to read my novel absolutely free (I know, beyond shameless))
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To: TheWasteLand

No worries. Obama isn’t likely to shut down Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Illinois the way Clinton shut down Super Collider in Texas.

So we might get there first.

Particle race: U.S. lab tops CERN supercollider
R. Colin Johnson
09/11/2008

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210601016&printable=true&printable=true

A U.S. laboratory claims to have beat out Europe’s new supercollider for the world’s first observation of a new subatomic particle.

The Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory (Fermilab, Batavia, Ill.) one-upped the European Council for Nuclear Research’s CERN’s Large Hadron Collider by announcing the observation of the Omega b baryon, a cousin of the proton. By colliding protons with anti-protons, Fermilab became the first to observe the particle. But its discovery may yet be confirmed by CERN next spring when CERN ramps up its larger particle accelerator.

“Omega b bayon is a distant cousin of the proton and neutron from which the universe is made” along with electrons, said professor Jianming Qian of the University of Michigan, which helped conduct the experiment to observe the Omega b bayon. “Protons and neutrons are the lightest elements in the baryon family, but Omega b is six time heavier than a proton.”

Qian discovered the Omega b baryon as a member of the DZero project at Fermilab. In all, 600 physicists from 90 institutions are analyzing data from the DZero project. They must sift through data from over 100 trillion particle collisions to find the 18 events with the distinctive decay profile confirming the observation of the Omega b baryon, which traveled only 1 millimeter before decaying.

Baryons are composed of quarks from three families: up/down, charm/strange and top/bottom. Protons and neutrons are made from the first family: up and down quarks. The Omega b baryon, on the other hand, was found at Fermilab to be composed of quarks from the other two families: two strange quarks and one bottom quark.

The Omega b baryon and other exotic particles, which last for only about 10-12 seconds before decaying, are almost nonexistent but were abundant just after the Big Bang. Almost all subatomic particles, except protons and electrons, are unstable and quickly decay. Even neutrons, composed of one “up” and two “down” quarks, are unstable by themselves and decay into a proton, an electron and an anti-neutrino.

Particle accelerators are not designed specifically to observe particles like the Omega b bayon. Rather, both Fermilab and CERN are searching for the Higgs bosons—sometimes called the “God particle”—which is a member of a more fundamental class of particles that are postulated as responsible for gravity a measurement of mass.

There is no confirmed explanation for why subatomic particles have any mass at all, which leaves the force of gravity in a theoretical state of limbo, with many competing theories attempting to explain it. Only by observing the decay of a Higgs boson, according to Qian, will theorists be able to resolve their differences.

“If we can observe a Higgs boson decay, then we may be able to confirm what is called the Standard Model. Or we may discover that there are extra dimensions to space where only gravity can propagate. Or our observations may lead to something entirely new,” said Qian.

Both Fermi and CERN are looking for the Higgs bosun using similar methods of accelerating particle beams to near the speed of light, then colliding them with a force almost as powerful as the Big Bang. Whereas CERN will use high-intensity proton beams, Fermilab’s DZero project is using one beam of protons and one beam of anti-protons.

Since anti-protons must be painstakingly manufactured at a temperature of 17 trillion degrees Fahrenheit, CERN researchers will not be able to create enough of them for its high-intensity beam. Fermilabs, on the other hand, uses a beam of lower intensity for which it can manufacture enough anti-proton matter. The approach has paid off—since proton/anti-proton collisions produce much more energy by virtue of mutual annihilation—resulting in the recent observation of the Omega b baryon.

The DZero project is funded by the U.S. Energy Department and the National Science Foundation.

All materials on this site Copyright © 2008 TechInsights, a Division of United Business Media LLC.


9 posted on 12/01/2008 7:05:18 PM PST by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: LibWhacker; TheWasteLand

Sorry, just noticed that article doesn’t mention that Tevatron is a name of Fermilab accelerator / synchrotron.


10 posted on 12/01/2008 7:11:38 PM PST by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: LibWhacker

Well, the schedule was met and that’s what’s important... right?


11 posted on 12/01/2008 7:13:59 PM PST by fso301
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To: fso301

In Europe, yes.


12 posted on 12/01/2008 7:31:18 PM PST by enduserindy (I hope he proves us wrong. Really, I do.)
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To: LibWhacker

bttt


13 posted on 12/01/2008 7:51:36 PM PST by SuperLuminal
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To: Jeff F

LOL!


14 posted on 12/01/2008 9:11:22 PM PST by Islander7 (This Atlas is shrugging! ~ I am Joe!)
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To: CutePuppy
"...“If we can observe a Higgs boson decay, then we may be able to confirm what is called the Standard Model. Or we may discover that there are extra dimensions to space where only gravity can propagate. Or our observations may lead to something entirely new,” said Qian. '...Several billion more in funding will needed, we have careers to consider, you know....'
15 posted on 12/01/2008 9:15:32 PM PST by Islander7 (This Atlas is shrugging! ~ I am Joe!)
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To: Islander7

Not unlike Manhattan Project, this may be one of a few times where taxpayers money might be appropriately and well spent by the government on pure science. Sheer size the and lack of obvious commercial applications pretty much preclude private financing. Certainly, cheaper and more appropriate than wasting taxpayers money on UAW bailout, and with more contribution to overall knowledge and eventual benefit to society, even if project “fails”.


16 posted on 12/02/2008 7:59:06 PM PST by CutePuppy (If you don't ask the right questions you may not get the right answers)
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To: SlowBoat407
I hear it’s supposed to go live on December 21, 2012. ;^)


17 posted on 02/10/2009 5:50:21 PM PST by America2012
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