Posted on 11/19/2008 9:11:02 AM PST by kellynla
Catholic members of Congress who vote for the Freedom of Choice Act (FOCA) could face “automatic excommunication” if the act is determined to be “formal cooperation” in the evil of abortion.
(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...
I think it’s important to remember the distinction between the following two statements: “We need Christ for our salvation” is not the same thing as saying “Christ does all the work for our salvation and we do nothing”. If you (CottShop) wish to comment on that further, please feel free but I have no intention of debating that point.
As far as dbz’s point on this thread, or what I believe it to be, there is a huge difference between denying an ill woman an abortion that *may* save her life and intentionally ending the life of a fetus in any other case (abortion on demand). The former is *not* murder the latter is; thus your (apparent) thesis that states, “unjust killing of an innocent life deserves death”, is flawed, when applied to the (exceedingly rare) case of “mother’s life is threatened by continued pregnancy”.
Simply put, this assumes no one made the mother ill in the first place, by some kind of poisoning or other some such unnatural intervention. However, each time a fetus is aborted, that is an unnatural intervention in its life (assuming it is alive).
A person can lose his salvation by deliberately and knowingly turning their back on God and His law, and dying in a state of unrepentance.
The words "deliberately" and "knowingly" are significant here. The ordinary state of humanity is one of vacillating intentions and pathetic ignorance. I don't know how often people truly act with full knowledge and full consent of the will: but God knows.
I can say, though, that this FOCA legislation is the most atrocious death-dealing legislation ever proposed in the United States; and if a person both knows that and intends it, and supports FOCA anyway, that person is in an objectively damnable position.
Nope. I want a formal “You’re no longer welcome here” from somebody official...
“In April 1995, Pope John Paul II wrote in his encyclical Evangelium Vitae that the death penalty was justified only in cases where there was no other possible means of defending society.”
An encyclical is an expressed opinion... it does not constitute an infallible teaching of the Church, i.e.: encyclicals do not express dogmas of the faith, unless specifically defined to be such by the Pope, acting from the chair of Peter, and in union with the Holy See. My point stands: The death penalty is legitimate under Canon Law, despite the expressed contrary opinion of a Concilliar Pope, or any other ecumenist imbibing the liberal pap of Modernism.
“The Church considers divorce and remarriage committing adultery. Adultery is a sin, a violation of the 6th Commandment. Yet civil law not only permits divorce, it gives it a tax subsidy. How can Catholics, in good faith, support laws that do that?”
How does this argument stand against what I specified? The Church grants annulments only on extremely limited grounds, where the sacrament was administered under fraudulent circumstances, or where there existed a natural impediment to the union at the time the sacrament was made. I made no statement in support of divorce; nor did I imply that Catholics should support divorce; therefore, I do not see how your reply squares with my previous statements.
Nowhere have I argued that the Catholic Church supports divorce; and, moreover, since marriage, being a Holy Sacrament, remains fully within the purview of the Church, the State lacks legitimate authority to dissolve any marriage contracted within the Church.
The action of civil divorce has no standing within Canon Law, for reason that the State is usurping what rightfully belongs wholly within the discipline of the Church. Civil divorce is a construct of Free Masonry, and was given the weight of statute solely for the purpose of undermining the Church and the Catholic Faith.
BTW, your handle matches your arguments: Non-sequitur.
The only instance where the mother’s life may be considered in actual jeopardy is the occurrence of an ectopic pregnancy (a fertilized embryo developing within the fallopian tube and not the uterus.
In this age it is difficult to conceive any other instance where the mother’s life is actually in peril.
Further, in considering the viability of the child outside the womb is now a possibility at incredibly early stages of fetal development, it then becomes a false argument to assert there exists any contest of survival between child and mother.
One other point:
Did Jesus Christ speak out against Roman capital punishment, per se? Did he even denounce his own sentence of death? Did he say to either of the two thieves crucified with him that they should not be so condemned? All three inquiries are answered in the negative. As Christ has made known by His own example, so must the Church follow.
SOON we will see the BEAST=Government destroy the WHORE=organized religion.
Before I am attacked :) let me state. I am very much against abortion!!
Christ said the very things that came against him would come against his people. Political Rome and religious pharasees plotted to kill him.
THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE!!
Christ did not go to Rome and sign a contract stating he did not have to pay taxes so he would have more money to build his kingdom. When asked about taxes He said...”Render unto Caesar what is Caesars and unto God what is Gods.” and paid them.
The 501c3 tax exempt status is a CONTRACT just like a marriage license is a CONTRACT. The worldly church has married the government for money...she has become a whore.
The TRUE church will have no one as her bridegroom except Christ. The TRUE church is not a denomination!! She is a people, out of many denominations. Rev. 17 describes this whore. Rev. 18:4 clearly states....”COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE.” and he says what he is going to do to her.
For those of you who are guilt ridden for not attending one of these worldly organizations....don’t be...you hear more than you know. For those who are sold out to them and can’t see the deception...I’m sorry...you are far to brain washed for me to deal with.
THERE is NOTHING that can be done to prepare for what we will see other than REPENT!! Get on your face and ask forgiveness for not hearing or even trying to hear the voice of the living God. Mankind has build his Tower of Babel...Mankind has built his kingdoms that not even Christ wanted, when he was offered them in the wilderness. GET OUT of them before he uses the very thing that made them what they are...the BEAST.. to destroy them. IT IS COMING!
It is already riding the abortion issue and the gay issue...its coming. Deception is just what it says. Leading a people to believe something that is not true.
Many...believers or unbelievers have to agree on ONE thing if nothing else...We are starting to see what a BEAST government can become...and we haven’t seen anything yet!!
One other point: The dilemma of which life to save in the issue of fetal distress vs. the maternal fatality... I MAY ONLY STATE: God’s will be done. Pray that both may be saved from peril.
Where the issues of rape and incest presents themselves, a line of reasoning comes as follows: Should the innocent child be condemned to death for the crime of the father?
Where the matter comes down to a clear manifestation of innocence, the innocent must be spared... and this is the distinction between abortion and capital punishment. The unborn child is the epitome of innocence... the convicted murderer is anything but.
“WHORE=organized religion?”
excuse me,
and just what religion is that?
Which theology is that? It's certainly not Catholic theology.
“WHORE=organized religion?”
excuse me,
and just what religion is that?
************
ANY religion that has contracted herself to the government for money....ANY of them. Christ paid his taxes...why shouldn’t they????
It’s about time for them to put their money where their mouth is.
Amen, Amen and Amen.
That has to be about the most asinine statement I have ever seen on FR. Watch the glue, it kills brain cells.
“ANY religion that has contracted herself to the government for money....ANY of them. Christ paid his taxes...why shouldn’t they????”
If the State has made tax exclusions for religious institutions, then the State has declared the exemption, not the Church acting unilaterally.
If ancient Rome had exempted the Jewish Temple from taxes, would they need pay? Would Christ demand to give assent to that which has not been made requisite by force of legitimate moral authority?
In short: How do you render to Caesar when Caesar has declared render not?
Do Christians, et al, as private citizens, not pay taxes? The Church is exempt because the State has declared it so... but that was not always true. So your point is invalid.
Please explain, using specific verifiable facts, exactly how the Church has contracted herself to the State. Does the Church accept government funds for services rendered to the State? Does the State collect funds for services rendered to the Church?
Your contentions are illogical, and porous as a sieve.
“ANY religion that has contracted herself to the government for money....”
nice dodge...ya wanna be a little specific
name names or don’t post
How about you name me names!
WHAT church in this country DOES NOT have a tax exempt status called a 501c3?
I do not have the time to go through the phone book just in my city alone to name you names. I would love to find a church that hasn’t sold itself to the Government...so you figure how long that list would be.
AND while you are merely guessing...check the IRS site first. I’ve had Pastors LIE to me only to be busted.
The church is not tax exempt unless it requests a 501c3...fills it out and sends it to the Government requesting to be a 501c3 organization. It is NOT mandatory to have it to have a church. It is greed on the part of the churchs.
You don’t know what you are talking about. I’ve already interviewed numerous pastors..from numerous denominations....have you? Do your homework. It is simple as 2+2.
501c3....NO PAY TAXES, follow rules of state...Christ paid taxes, was not bound to Rome to follow Romes rules.
But if there is a steam roller attached to F.O.C.A., i.e., get it done in 1st 60 days of Obama Admin, then we must have LIFE CHAINS in early February, just following the National March for Life in DC and other places.
We cannot, in my opinion, wait just for the March for Life to act...
Oh! That'll put you in solid with God.
Remind me not to be in line behind you come judgment day.
sheezzzzzzzzzz...
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